Forums | MacLife

Bat · 2006-08-22 3:10 am

Bootcampers and PC gamers, this is some good stuff. One weeks' worth; installment one.

Halo 2 Vista Week!
by Frankie at 8/21/2006 2:52 PM PDT

In the first of a week long Halo 2 for Windows Vista spectacular, we introduce you to Matt Priestley from the Bungie H2Vista team, and dish some info on the game bound to break many, many mice in 2007.

First off, the big news is that Halo 2 for Vista is making its public debut at the Leipzig Games Convention on August 24th through 27th. Those of you lucky enough to live in Germany will get a chance to play against each other in a pair of multiplayer maps we picked out for the show. Several of our key team members will also be present, struggling to explain keyboards layouts to German speakers using a combination of grunts, gestures and umlauts. Oh, and I don�t want to get you North American gamers too excited, but we�re looking at a possible US show in the near future. That�s Top Secret for now.

Already in a showable convention-playable state! Kewl.

As I was saying, last Friday was the most recent project review for Halo 2 on Vista. The dev team breaks its work into five-week milestones called Sprints. They�re just now wrapping up Sprint 5 and heading into Sprint 6. As a newbie, this was my first time attending a so-called Sprint Review, so naturally I cowered in awe when they switched on their nice fat Samsung HDTV and Halo 2 blazed forth in 1920x1200 resolution and 5.1 sound.

Audio & Video

We had a number of visual improvements in Sprint 5, and the game�s starting to showcase the power of the PC platform. Lighting in particular has real richness now, with dark-black blacks and overbrightness effects that make you want to stop and stare at the walls in Ivory Tower. Bump mapped detail textures were implemented in this Sprint too, giving maps like Lockout a suitably gritty feel.

Thanks to the oodles of memory available on a typical PC (compared to the prodigious, but now five-plus year old Xbox 1), we�ve been able to suspend some of the usual in-game rules about the resolution of textures. The first-person weapon models have been retouched from the Xbox source art, and are now IMO the juiciest part of the game. Halo 2 Vista also maintains its highest level of texture detail � a.k.a. �cinematic LOD� � even at great distances. This gives the game a feeling of clarity currently unavailable on the console.

...

As with video, the audio in Halo 2 Vista will be subtly tweaked. For example, as of this Sprint, engine pitch on the Warthog and Ghost bends up or down depending on acceleration. Sound fundamentals are firming up too: sound is now more accurately spatialized now according to your position and the direction you�re facing. The audio devs treated us to all manner of booms and crackling flame effects as they wantonly blew things up, and the audience literally rocked in their seats at the metal groan of the wheel arm in Zanzibar.

Speaking of which, that giant wheel received an important fix in Sprint 5. Previously that sneaky wheel would pop in and out of existence depending on how you looked at it. These are not the droids you�re looking for�

Enhanced everything and teh fixed. I'm in lurv. All this and more at

http://www.bungie.net/News/TopStory.asp … istaweek01

Booksley · 2006-08-22 8:29 am

Bat wrote:
so naturally I cowered in awe when they switched on their nice fat Samsung HDTV and Halo 2 blazed forth in 1920x1200 resolution and 5.1 sound.

drool drool drool I can't wait to play this big_smile I just hope my 7900GT is up to snuff for 1680x1050...

I can't read the rest of the article until I get off work though! whaa

mo' ron · 2006-08-22 2:57 pm

Halo 2 Vista?

Is that Halo 2 for Vista, or a new version of Halo 2?

Aqua OS X · 2006-08-22 3:28 pm

mo' ron wrote:
Halo 2 Vista?

Is that Halo 2 for Vista, or a new version of Halo 2?

It's Halo 2 for Vista, but there's going to be a fair amount of new content.

ConnertheCat · 2006-08-22 4:52 pm

Aqua OS X wrote:
mo' ron wrote:
Halo 2 Vista?

Is that Halo 2 for Vista, or a new version of Halo 2?
It's Halo 2 for Vista, but there's going to be a fair amount of new content.

Whether or not it will be worth the steep Windows Update cost has been yet to be seen.

Phydeaux · 2006-08-22 5:28 pm

Ptooey, there'll be more than just Halo forcing us to update. tongue

Booksley · 2006-08-22 5:33 pm

Phydeaux wrote:
Ptooey, there'll be more than just Halo forcing us to update.

Really? I was actually planning on getting Vista just for Halo 2...

...of course, the only reason being i'll be able to get Vista for much cheaper than retail tongue

Bat · 2006-08-22 5:57 pm

Halo 2 will only be on the PC via Vista. It won't install or run on XP or earlier; it's DX10, and that's Vista-only.

Seem to be several reasons for that, ranging from 'they want folks to upgrade' to 'it's going to be the first or second game on XBox Live Anywhere,' getting PCs onto XBL for the first time. MS/MGS opted to keep PCs and Xboxes/360s separate, tho FASA's Shadowrun will let PCs play against consoles- but that's a new game. H2 has a detailed ranking system; letting mousers play against 'Boxes might upset the applecart. PCs have potential advantages, but many consolers have a mighty lead in experience, knowing the maps inside out etc. Unpredictable, and H2 is XBL's biggest draw. I expect H3 to be balanced for cross-platform from the get-go, and get a PC port that much quicker (to get it on XBLA). XBLA might also need DX10's networking stack and new driver model- who knows? Vista even handles audio differently.

And yes, things like editor functions/user-created content are being built in. There might be a few new MP maps, can't remember offhand. Should hear something this week.

Bat · 2006-08-22 6:05 pm

And oh, yeah- that 'currently unavailable on the console' line seems a dead giveaway. Expect a special 'H2 360 Edition' to come out of this work too; max return on investment.

(...but it still won't play at 1920x1200 or higher. 2560x1600, anyone? big_smile )

Aqua OS X · 2006-08-22 6:57 pm

Bat wrote:
I expect H3 to be balanced for cross-platform from the get-go, and get a PC port that much quicker (to get it on XBLA).

I doubt it. Microsoft really seems to bank on having Xbox exclusivity for a few years. I don't see why they change course now right when the Xbox is about to go head to head with the 2 more next gen consoles.

ConnertheCat · 2006-08-22 9:07 pm

Bat wrote:
And oh, yeah- that 'currently unavailable on the console' line seems a dead giveaway. Expect a special 'H2 360 Edition' to come out of this work too; max return on investment.

Any idea when that comes out? I'd hate to buy H2 with that mere weeks away.

Aqua OS X · 2006-08-22 10:29 pm

It has the same release date as Duke Nukem Forever and Pimps at Sea.

Last edited by Aqua OS X (2006-08-22 10:29 pm)

ConnertheCat · 2006-08-22 11:07 pm

I'm looking for a general timeframe: Near-future, Far-future or the afore mentioned DNK land.

Aqua OS X · 2006-08-22 11:29 pm

ConnertheCat wrote:
I'm looking for a general timeframe: Near-future, Far-future or the afore mentioned DNK land.

::woosh::

Considering it has not been announced, or even rumored to be announced, it has the same release date as Pimps At Sea.

Bat · 2006-08-23 3:24 am

Aqua OS X wrote:
Bat wrote:
I expect H3 to be balanced for cross-platform from the get-go, and get a PC port that much quicker (to get it on XBLA).
I doubt it. Microsoft really seems to bank on having Xbox exclusivity for a few years. I don't see why they change course now right when the Xbox is about to go head to head with the 2 more next gen consoles.

They change course because other things change. XBLA will be new, and they'll be eager to populate that with PCs as well as Boxes ASAP, promote connectivity with Media PCs, grow the platform etc. etc. Nothing's as constant as change, right? XBL evolving into XBLA adds PCs to the mix- that's sure new. MS is serious about reinvigorating PC gaming, and putting substantial effort and bucks into it. The OS is their main biz, and their studies show gaming at the #2 PC activity (18%), behind the Web at #1 (35%. That includes kiddies to gramma.)

Instead of 2 years or so for a port to release, I make it 6-12 months- and I made money betting on the Intel switch a year ago. tongue

Aqua OS X wrote:
ConnertheCat wrote:
I'm looking for a general timeframe: Near-future, Far-future or the afore mentioned DNK land.
::woosh::

Considering it has not been announced, or even rumored to be announced, it has the same release date as Pimps At Sea.

You're a happy camper today... anyway, hard to say. Could be anywhere from concurrent with Vista to 3-6 months later; won't be DNK land. Much easier to see they'll rerelease H2 for 360 to look and sound better; that's what 360s and HD are most about, and the hard work'll have already been done for Vista. Even if it doesn't match H2V on its top settings, it'll look and sound a deal better than original H2 on 360.

AOX, the sentence I quote is just the last straw. I've been expecting this since H2V was announced- it's just too obvious.

PAS is that close?.. woohoo! big_smile

Anyhoo, Bungie was as good as their word, and Day 2 brings us

Halo 2 Vista: Mapmaking
by Frankie at 8/22/2006 5:03 PM PDT

Pi Studios are the team responsible for bringing the map editor to Halo 2 on Windows Vista, and they wanted to share their progress and ideas, with you, our gentle reader. It's Day 2 of the week that KP foolishly calls Vistravaganza.

http://www.bungie.net/News/TopStory.aspx?cid=8809

Bat · 2006-08-23 4:55 am

Booksley wrote:
Phydeaux wrote:
Ptooey, there'll be more than just Halo forcing us to update.
Really? I was actually planning on getting Vista just for Halo 2...

You were actually going to Vista for Halo 2 and every other DX10 game, since DX10 will only come in flava Vista. tongue big_smile

Good stuff on Tool, Guerilla and Sapien; HaloCE and the HEK, and about new content, from the above:

What will be the extent and limitations of what players will be able to build?

David: The end-user will be provided with everything needed to create custom multiplayer maps, complete with new textures and even customizable shaders from Halo 2.

...

Will Pi Studios be creating any example or extra maps to go with the tools?

Robert: Absolutely. Our experience has been that people learn best by example. We are providing detailed tutorials and examples that not only walk end-users through the level or content creation process, but also provide a final result for end-users to compare to their own work.

ConnertheCat · 2006-08-23 10:11 am

Well, theoretically, someone could *ahem* un-officaly move Direct X 10 to XP. I'm not quite sure how much of it is Vista technology dependent, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone starts the project.

Obviously, it would be buggy. tongue

Bat · 2006-08-24 4:00 pm

I'd be highly dubious of that. DX evolved from a download add-on in Oct. '95 to a core component of the OS, and Vista is different in many ways, including new driver models. Anyway, Part 3 yesterday...

Keyboard vs. Joystick
by KPaul at 8/23/2006 5:26 PM PDT

For years this debate has raged in many a forum. Keyboard/Mouse or Joystick? We'll run over the most common arguments for each as they relate to Halo 2 Vista. Then members of the H2V Dev Team took on the Bungie Community Team in an epic Keyboard vs. Joystick Humpday.

http://www.bungie.net/News/TopStory.asp … bvjoystick

user · 2006-08-24 4:04 pm

Well, Vista has definitely been on a Pimps At Sea release schedule....

Bat · 2006-08-24 6:24 pm

...and H2V can't release before Vista! whaa

Anyway the remark about weapon textures finally rang a bell. DX10 also supports something like 4x-16x greater texture res. Going back to source art and mapping, say, 8kx8k textures onto the weaps might make them the sweetest evar, and help put 512MB videocards to good use. Your weap is always a fixed, close distance, too, no need for LOD- just super detail. Woots.

Aqua OS X · 2006-08-24 6:30 pm

user wrote:
Well, Vista has definitely been on a Pimps At Sea release schedule....

hehe

akb825 · 2006-08-24 8:16 pm

Bat wrote:
...and H2V can't release before Vista!

Anyway the remark about weapon textures finally rang a bell. DX10 also supports something like 4x-16x greater texture res. Going back to source art and mapping, say, 8kx8k textures onto the weaps might make them the sweetest evar, and help put 512MB videocards to good use. Your weap is always a fixed, close distance, too, no need for LOD- just super detail. Woots.

If you had 8kx8k textures, each texture would take up 192 MB in memory. If you had an alpha component to the texture as well, it would be 256 MB. I think you better start looking forward to the 512 GB graphics cards. wink

Aqua OS X · 2006-08-24 9:16 pm

I would imagine Bungie's going to post some screenies tomorrow. Seems fairly retarded to have a "Halo 2 vista week" with no screenshots.

Bat · 2006-08-25 1:56 am

akb825 wrote:
Bat wrote:
...and H2V can't release before Vista!

Anyway the remark about weapon textures finally rang a bell. DX10 also supports something like 4x-16x greater texture res. Going back to source art and mapping, say, 8kx8k textures onto the weaps might make them the sweetest evar, and help put 512MB videocards to good use. Your weap is always a fixed, close distance, too, no need for LOD- just super detail. Woots.
If you had 8kx8k textures, each texture would take up 192 MB in memory. If you had an alpha component to the texture as well, it would be 256 MB. I think you better start looking forward to the 512 GB graphics cards.

I thought you researched this... smile You'd better look this over. Don't forget texture compression either... passing lightly over SM1.0, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 2.0a, and 2.0b:

Not just up to 8Kx8K 2D texture sizes, but many times the max # of textures. Twice as many render targets and much more.

Aqua OS X wrote:
I would imagine Bungie's going to post some screenies tomorrow. Seems fairly retarded to have a "Halo 2 vista week" with no screenshots.

There was a suggestion they well might. Part 4 today, some good stuff:

Top 7 Reasons Why H2V Rocks
by KPaul at 8/24/2006 5:28 PM PDT

We've compiled the top seven reasons that Halo 2 Vista rocks. Some might say it even has the potential to rock ever so slightly harder than the Xbox original. There are some things you might expect such as the map editor as well as some new tidbits that you may not have known.

Much better and more informative than the summary blurb, but readably short.

http://www.bungie.net/News/TopStory.asp … envistarox

Last edited by Bat (2006-08-25 1:56 am)

akb825 · 2006-08-25 2:25 am

Bat wrote:
akb825 wrote:
Bat wrote:
...and H2V can't release before Vista!

Anyway the remark about weapon textures finally rang a bell. DX10 also supports something like 4x-16x greater texture res. Going back to source art and mapping, say, 8kx8k textures onto the weaps might make them the sweetest evar, and help put 512MB videocards to good use. Your weap is always a fixed, close distance, too, no need for LOD- just super detail. Woots.
If you had 8kx8k textures, each texture would take up 192 MB in memory. If you had an alpha component to the texture as well, it would be 256 MB. I think you better start looking forward to the 512 GB graphics cards.
I thought you researched this... You'd better look this over. Don't forget texture compression either... passing lightly over SM1.0, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 2.0a, and 2.0b:

http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/uti … 347,00.jpg

Not just up to 8Kx8K 2D texture sizes, but many times the max # of textures. Twice as many render targets and much more

What exactly are you trying to argue here? All I was trying to say was 8kx8k textures are huge. Even if you use compression, I highly doubt you would be able to effectively have more than a few before it chokes the card.

Forums | MacLife

#1 2006-08-22 3:10 am

'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

#2 2006-08-22 8:29 am

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

Bat wrote:

#3 2006-08-22 2:57 pm

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

#4 2006-08-22 3:28 pm

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

mo' ron wrote:

#5 2006-08-22 4:52 pm

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

Aqua OS X wrote:

mo' ron wrote:

#6 2006-08-22 5:28 pm

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

#7 2006-08-22 5:33 pm

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

Phydeaux wrote:

#8 2006-08-22 5:57 pm

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

#9 2006-08-22 6:05 pm

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

#10 2006-08-22 6:57 pm

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

Bat wrote:

#11 2006-08-22 9:07 pm

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

Bat wrote:

#12 2006-08-22 10:29 pm

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

#13 2006-08-22 11:07 pm

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

#14 2006-08-22 11:29 pm

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

ConnertheCat wrote:

#15 2006-08-23 3:24 am

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

Aqua OS X wrote:

Bat wrote:

Aqua OS X wrote:

ConnertheCat wrote:

#16 2006-08-23 4:55 am

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

Booksley wrote:

Phydeaux wrote:

#17 2006-08-23 10:11 am

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

#18 2006-08-24 4:00 pm

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

#19 2006-08-24 4:04 pm

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

#20 2006-08-24 6:24 pm

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

#21 2006-08-24 6:30 pm

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

user wrote:

#22 2006-08-24 8:16 pm

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

Bat wrote:

#23 2006-08-24 9:16 pm

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

#24 2006-08-25 1:56 am

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

akb825 wrote:

Bat wrote:

Aqua OS X wrote:

#25 2006-08-25 2:25 am

Re: 'Halo 2 Vista Week!' at Bungie.net

Bat wrote:

akb825 wrote:

Bat wrote:

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