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#26 2006-10-09 11:46 am
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
Are we normally "productive" here?
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#27 2006-10-09 12:03 pm
- sturner
- Royal High Poobah
- Moderator
- From: Carrollton, TX USA
- Registered: 2000-01-31
- Posts: 13813
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
mo' ron wrote:
Tallgeese wrote:
mo' ron wrote:
I don't know about you, but I don't have a time machine to go back and stop it from happening.It's not relevant to know who may have screwed up so we can learn from mistakes or remove incompetent people?
We know who screwed up, and how. I was trying to say that discussing in this thread who screwed up (Bush) will not lead to anything productive.
I suppose you are correct. However, there is political gain to be made, by the Bush Administration by not accepting responsibility, and simply saying this is even more dangerous for our security, you must vote Republican.
I'm not dead yet.
There are 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
"There are few things graven in stone, excepting your date of death."
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#28 2006-10-09 12:22 pm
- mo' ron
- PS3 4 EVA
- From: NC, USA
- Registered: 2002-10-15
- Posts: 14253
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
bratboy wrote:
Are we normally "productive" here?
We try to be... usually 
What is the difference between Vista and OSX?
- Microsoft employees are excited about OSX.
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#29 2006-10-09 12:25 pm
- jerwin
- Sophist
- From: The Garden of Pure Ideology
- Registered: 2003-01-01
- Posts: 7080
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
One of the editors at The National Review is speculating the the DPRK is pissed that Ban Ki-Moon, from South Korea, is a leading candidate for the post of UN Secretary General.
Some subjects actually enjoy pain, and withhold information they might otherwise have divulged in order to be punished.
Central Intelligence Agency. (1983). Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual
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#30 2006-10-09 12:35 pm
- user
- Your plastic pal who's fun to be with
- From: I'm not getting you down, am I
- Registered: 2001-10-15
- Posts: 16035
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
Kim is probably just pissed that Sarah Michelle Gellar won't return his calls....
Aw, he's no fun, he fell right over.
Unless you become as little children, there's no way you will believe this crap.
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#31 2006-10-09 12:41 pm
- JakeTheTall
- Cargo Cultist
- From: In Permanent Opposition
- Registered: 2003-03-13
- Posts: 9613
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
user wrote:
Kim is probably just pissed that Sarah Michelle Gellar won't return his calls....
He`s so wronely.....
Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim. Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet." They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.
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#32 2006-10-09 12:43 pm
- agedgruel
- insert clever phrase here
- From: Great Plains, U.S.A.
- Registered: 2004-06-05
- Posts: 775
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
Perhaps this will change the minds of the South Korean people; who didn't seem to have any issues with the leadership of the North. At least, according to Shnicky.
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#33 2006-10-09 2:44 pm
- Colonel Panic
- You need to restart
- From: The bowels of code
- Registered: 2003-10-12
- Posts: 533
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
Member of the Axis of the Obtuse ^
Have you tried repairing permissions?
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#34 2006-10-09 3:10 pm
- jerwin
- Sophist
- From: The Garden of Pure Ideology
- Registered: 2003-01-01
- Posts: 7080
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
Colonel Panic wrote:
Member of the Axis of the Obtuse ^
Aren't Axes normally straight? Maybe you should supplement that with something acute.
Some subjects actually enjoy pain, and withhold information they might otherwise have divulged in order to be punished.
Central Intelligence Agency. (1983). Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual
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#35 2006-10-09 4:11 pm
- after-life
- Member
- Registered: 2003-12-25
- Posts: 2370
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
This is the result of the Bush administration's deluded fantasies about regime change. North Korea was fully willing to negotiate, but we decided it was more important to stake out the moral high ground.
We can't do a damn thing to really punish North Korea for its nuclear test, and they know it. When a country is already almost completely isolated international condemnation and sanctions don't do a thing. The best we could have done is to have gone into talks and to have essentially bribed them into not testing.
The only way to bring down the NK regime would be to get China and South Korea on board to cut off food and fuel aid. There is no chance in hell of this happening, because neither country wants millions of starving refugees flooding through their borders. This test isn't going to cause to have a hardline stance, because neither of them are worried about being nuked by North Korea. They're more concerned about it provoking Japan to build nuclear weapons.
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#36 2006-10-09 5:29 pm
- JakeTheTall
- Cargo Cultist
- From: In Permanent Opposition
- Registered: 2003-03-13
- Posts: 9613
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
after-life wrote:
This is the result of the Bush administration's deluded fantasies about regime change. North Korea was fully willing to negotiate, but we decided it was more important to stake out the moral high ground.
We can't do a damn thing to really punish North Korea for its nuclear test, and they know it. When a country is already almost completely isolated international condemnation and sanctions don't do a thing. The best we could have done is to have gone into talks and to have essentially bribed them into not testing.
The only way to bring down the NK regime would be to get China and South Korea on board to cut off food and fuel aid. There is no chance in hell of this happening, because neither country wants millions of starving refugees flooding through their borders. This test isn't going to cause to have a hardline stance, because neither of them are worried about being nuked by North Korea. They're more concerned about it provoking Japan to build nuclear weapons.
I disagree, I doubt North Korea was ever that interested in negotiation.
I also suspect that North Korea felt they had China's blessing to stir up a bit of trouble, but now China may see North Korea as having gone too far.
It's not an easy situtation to sort out, but it requires real statesmanship and leadership; I don't think President Bush, nor his cabinet, are up to it.
Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim. Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet." They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.
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#37 2006-10-09 5:44 pm
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
....just another consequence of our moronic foreign "policy" of only talking to our friends.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#38 2006-10-09 5:51 pm
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
This is not a consequence of the dictator of North Korea wanting Nukes and nothing less.
Amazing how easily some people who profess to be highly suspect of our government and their "attempts" to take away our rights will just believe, hook line and sinker, the excuse of a dictator who actually DID take away the rights and liberties of his own people.
Really, wake up.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#39 2006-10-09 5:56 pm
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
resedit wrote:
This is not a consequence of the dictator of North Korea wanting Nukes and nothing less.
Amazing how easily some people who profess to be highly suspect of our government and their "attempts" to take away our rights will just believe, hook line and sinker, the excuse of a dictator who actually DID take away the rights and liberties of his own people.
Really, wake up.
Who's believing what "excuse" by which dictator?
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#40 2006-10-09 5:58 pm
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
I believe this is a succinct explanation of the problem with this country's policy towards foreign relations....
Bush' Blunder In North Korea
First: Don't panic. Kim Jong Il's objective is survival and eventual change in North Korea, not suicide. The diplomatic situation in Northeast Asia will be immensely complicated by the North Korea test, which I think was a huge mistake on their part, but missiles are not about to start flying.
The test may indicate the rise in influence of a hard-line faction in the KPA, which is holding sway, at least for now, over others more interested in transformational change in NK. The initiation of a strong bilateral dialogue between NK and the US would strengthen the moderates, and ease the situation in general, but that is not at all likely to happen.
Second: Why won't the Bush administration talk bilaterally and substantively with NK, as the Brits (and eventually the US) did with Libya? Because the Bush administration sees diplomacy as something to be engaged in with another country as a reward for that country's good behavior. They seem not to see diplomacy as a tool to be used with antagonistic countries or parties, that might bring about an improvement in the behaviour of such entities, and a resolution to the issues that trouble us. Thus we do not talk to Iran, Syria, Hizballah or North Korea. We only talk to our friends -- a huge mistake.
-------
Donald Gregg was a CIA official since 1951 and a liaison to President Carter's National Security Council and, National Security Advisor to Vice President George H.W. Bush and U.S. ambassador to South Korea from 1989 to 1993. He's now chairman of the board of the Korea Society.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#41 2006-10-09 6:27 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
agedgruel wrote:
Perhaps this will change the minds of the South Korean people; who didn't seem to have any issues with the leadership of the North. At least, according to Shnicky.
First of all, I said the majority of South Koreans don't see North Korea as a threat. And what's this "according to Shnicky" crap? You saw the polls. And commented on them!
Note: please delete this post.
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#42 2006-10-09 6:30 pm
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
With THAT many posts, your opinion surely caries greater weight than some silly poll.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#44 2006-10-09 6:35 pm
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
bratboy wrote:
resedit wrote:
This is not a consequence of the dictator of North Korea wanting Nukes and nothing less.
Amazing how easily some people who profess to be highly suspect of our government and their "attempts" to take away our rights will just believe, hook line and sinker, the excuse of a dictator who actually DID take away the rights and liberties of his own people.
Really, wake up.
Who's believing what "excuse" by which dictator?
George W Bush is not a dictator.
Therefore, since we are talking about two countries here, it should be easy to figure out.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#45 2006-10-09 6:35 pm
- JakeTheTall
- Cargo Cultist
- From: In Permanent Opposition
- Registered: 2003-03-13
- Posts: 9613
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
resedit wrote:
This is not a consequence of the dictator of North Korea wanting Nukes and nothing less.
Amazing how easily some people who profess to be highly suspect of our government and their "attempts" to take away our rights will just believe, hook line and sinker, the excuse of a dictator who actually DID take away the rights and liberties of his own people.
Really, wake up.
What are you saying ? Who here has said that Kim and North Korea should have nukes ?
Are you trying to leap to a conclusion based on what you think some might say, and then condem them ?
Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim. Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet." They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.
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#46 2006-10-09 6:38 pm
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
resedit wrote:
George W Bush is not a dictator.
Therefore, since we are talking about two countries here, it should be easy to figure out.
Cute.
What "EXCUSE" is been bought "hook, line, and sinker?" Could you state that with specificity? You seem to be referring to particular people here...
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#47 2006-10-09 6:39 pm
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
JakeTheTall wrote:
resedit wrote:
This is not a consequence of the dictator of North Korea wanting Nukes and nothing less.
Amazing how easily some people who profess to be highly suspect of our government and their "attempts" to take away our rights will just believe, hook line and sinker, the excuse of a dictator who actually DID take away the rights and liberties of his own people.
Really, wake up.What are you saying ? Who here has said that Kim and North Korea should have nukes ?
Are you trying to leap to a conclusion based on what you think some might say, and then condem them ?
It would appear as though he is saying that Kim J 'Illin was going for nukes no matter what the FP of the US was.
Just like back in Saigon! Eh, slick?
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#48 2006-10-09 7:23 pm
- jerwin
- Sophist
- From: The Garden of Pure Ideology
- Registered: 2003-01-01
- Posts: 7080
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
Some subjects actually enjoy pain, and withhold information they might otherwise have divulged in order to be punished.
Central Intelligence Agency. (1983). Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual
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#49 2006-10-09 7:28 pm
- agedgruel
- insert clever phrase here
- From: Great Plains, U.S.A.
- Registered: 2004-06-05
- Posts: 775
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
ShnickyShnack wrote:
agedgruel wrote:
Perhaps this will change the minds of the South Korean people; who didn't seem to have any issues with the leadership of the North. At least, according to Shnicky.
First of all, I said the majority of South Koreans don't see North Korea as a threat. And what's this "according to Shnicky" crap? You saw the polls. And commented on them!
You made an assertion, then backed it up with data to support your claim. I was merely giving credit where it was due.
Did I misinterpret your findings?
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#50 2006-10-09 7:32 pm
- agedgruel
- insert clever phrase here
- From: Great Plains, U.S.A.
- Registered: 2004-06-05
- Posts: 775
Re: A threat in the shape of a mushroom cloud
Colonel Panic wrote:
Member of the Axis of the Obtuse ^
For the more obtuse members of this forum, would you care to explain that claim?
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