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#1 2006-10-19 1:14 pm

oatmeal
the clueless ones
Royal Wombat
Registered: 2002-08-07
Posts: 609
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It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

A Star Trek-style "cloaking device" has been built using technology developed to make objects invisible.

The "cloak", based on a British design concept, measures less than five inches across and only responds to radar waves.

But within five years there might be devices powerful enough to make whole vehicles "vanish" - including battlefield tanks.

An invisibility cloak blueprint was produced in May by Professor Sir John Pendry, a physicist at Imperial College London.

Just five months later, scientists working with him in the US have put the idea into practice.

The concept involves bending visible light, or other forms of electromagnetic radiation such as radar, around the object being hidden.

Link

Bending light?  Bending EM radiation?  AAAH!

Don't they realize what they've got? 

What's the most dangerous obstacle to manned space flight from this planet to other planets?  What's the biggest obstacle to permanant settlement on the moon or Mars?

Radiation! 

smurf making smurf disappear, this bends radiation away from the object at the center of the field!  There's no ozone layer to protect you when you're in a ship or on the surface of Mars, so you have to build ships with impossibly thick and dense walls to protect the crew, or on Mars bury living quarters sufficiently deep underground to prevent radiation poisioning.  With something like this?  Hell, they'd be able to flip a switch and

http://www.sur-la-toile.com/images/articles/bsod.jpg

Hmmm.  Better use a more stable OS than that if they're depending on it for their lives, I suppose.

But still!  That's awesome!

The making smurf disappear trick is pretty neat too. wink

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#2 2006-10-19 1:36 pm

Spaceman
Member
Registered: 2002-05-19
Posts: 1009
Website

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

I could be wrong (should really make that my sig), but I think only gamma radiation is electromagnetic, and what we think of as "radiation", the stuff Geiger counters go all beepy over (technical term) includes alpha and beta radiation, which are particles, which it doesn't affect.

Also invisibility is way cooler and should be what we focus all our energies on. wink

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#3 2006-10-19 1:43 pm

oatmeal
the clueless ones
Royal Wombat
Registered: 2002-08-07
Posts: 609
Website

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

Electromagnetic radiation (light, ultraviolet, radio waves, microwaves, etc) acts as both a particle and as a wave.  Either way, they're saying that they can channel this radiation around objects.

Tiny objects right now, and imperfectly.  If you read the article, right now they can only do microwaves - which are used for radars.

So it's a start.  They expect to be able to cloak a tank in a few years.  No radar hits it, no light hits it... radiation simply goes around it!  That's awesome!

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#4 2006-10-19 1:44 pm

mo' ron
PS3 4 EVA
From: NC, USA
Registered: 2002-10-15
Posts: 14479

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

Spaceman wrote:

I could be wrong (should really make that my sig), but I think only gamma radiation is electromagnetic, and what we think of as "radiation", the stuff Geiger counters go all beepy over (technical term) includes alpha and beta radiation, which are particles, which it doesn't affect.

Also invisibility is way cooler and should be what we focus all our energies on. wink

You are 100% way wrong.

All radiation/light is radiation of EM waves, there's just a phenomena called wave-particle duality when EM radiation can be modeled like a particle AND a wave, depending on the situation.


What is the difference between Vista and OSX?
- Microsoft employees are excited about OSX.

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#5 2006-10-19 1:49 pm

Chickenhawk
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From: Being Snarky
Registered: 2005-06-01
Posts: 6096

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

Oatmeal wrote:

There's no ozone layer to protect you when you're in a ship or on the surface of Mars

The ozone layer only protects you against UV radiation, which only is harmful to bare skin. You're thinking of the magnetic field (mars has a very weak one). That protects us from a good deal of cosmic radiation.


The recent medical controversy over whether vaccinations cause autism reveals a habit of human cognition—thinking anecdotally comes naturally, whereas thinking scientifically does not. -- Michael Shermer

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#6 2006-10-19 1:56 pm

zerocool90
Member
From: N.C.
Registered: 2002-05-02
Posts: 1538
Website

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

mo' ron wrote:

Spaceman wrote:

I could be wrong (should really make that my sig), but I think only gamma radiation is electromagnetic, and what we think of as "radiation", the stuff Geiger counters go all beepy over (technical term) includes alpha and beta radiation, which are particles, which it doesn't affect.

Also invisibility is way cooler and should be what we focus all our energies on. wink

You are 100% way wrong.

All radiation/light is radiation of EM waves, there's just a phenomena called wave-particle duality when EM radiation can be modeled like a particle AND a wave, depending on the situation.

Dangit Mo'ron, noone wants to get into the whole Wave vs Particle / Duality phenonmenon theory here! Begone with your science talk!

Ok, what I meant to say was "Dangit, you beat me to it"


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#7 2006-10-19 1:57 pm

knobtwirler
Anthropocentric Temporal Chauvinist
From: NYC
Registered: 2003-07-28
Posts: 3270

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

Still, there's no earth's electromagnetic field to protect you in space.


If you look around the table and can't tell who the sucker is, it's you.

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#8 2006-10-19 2:03 pm

oatmeal
the clueless ones
Royal Wombat
Registered: 2002-08-07
Posts: 609
Website

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

knobtwirler wrote:

Still, there's no earth's electromagnetic field to protect you in space.

Right!  Even if I was excited and got that a little (ok, completely) wrong at the time. blush

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#9 2006-10-19 2:19 pm

kb5zhh
Large Outsider (native)
From: Baator
Registered: 2002-08-13
Posts: 14066
Website

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

mo' ron wrote:

Spaceman wrote:

I could be wrong (should really make that my sig), but I think only gamma radiation is electromagnetic, and what we think of as "radiation", the stuff Geiger counters go all beepy over (technical term) includes alpha and beta radiation, which are particles, which it doesn't affect.

Also invisibility is way cooler and should be what we focus all our energies on. wink

You are 100% way wrong.

All radiation/light is radiation of EM waves, there's just a phenomena called wave-particle duality when EM radiation can be modeled like a particle AND a wave, depending on the situation.

He's partially right.  radioactive decay produces light (gamma and x rays) and particles (alpha radiation which is a He nucleus, beta radiation which is an electron, and a bunch of other stuff).  Geiger counters can detect alpha and beta radiation, which is not a form of light.  They can less reliably detect gamma radiation.


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#10 2006-10-19 2:42 pm

Shadowless
Cpl, USMC
From: Jacksonville, NC
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 3061

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

I'm in the "fly" camp. smurf being invisible.


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#11 2006-10-19 3:30 pm

henebry
Member
Registered: 2003-04-24
Posts: 478

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

Spaceman wrote:

I could be wrong (should really make that my sig), but I think only gamma radiation is electromagnetic, and what we think of as "radiation", the stuff Geiger counters go all beepy over (technical term) includes alpha and beta radiation, which are particles, which it doesn't affect.

True, but the other kinds (Alpha and Beta) are charged particles, which means they can be steered using powerful magnetic fields. So, though I also may be wrong, I think it's the gamma and not the other radiation that poses the biggest threat to manned space flight.

Spaceman wrote:

Also invisibility is way cooler and should be what we focus all our energies on. wink

I guess we know now where you stand on the eternal question of superpowers posed by John Hodgman. I, personally, would pick flight over invisibility. wink


"I am flaccid with rage" - Steven Colbert on the iPhone

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#12 2006-10-19 3:31 pm

Kurto2021
Member
From: Wichita, KS
Registered: 2001-11-28
Posts: 2424

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

a crazy week....first I see Forcefields and now Cloaking.

here is a link to see a forcefield
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2N6CqAgXgM


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#13 2006-10-19 3:48 pm

ScifiterX
婚約中
Moderator
From: NW Palm Bay, Florida
Registered: 2000-02-10
Posts: 18269
Website

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

It is not a true forcefield. It is an RPG interception system that detect threats and basically hits them with a shotgun like blast before they can get close enough to cause damage. The Isrealis developed it and have been using it for a while. The DOD likes it but the US army doesn't want to dependent on foreign technology especially when we've got technology being developed for similar purposes even though it'll be years before its ready.

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#14 2006-10-19 4:08 pm

Chickenhawk
Snark Snark Snark Snark
From: Being Snarky
Registered: 2005-06-01
Posts: 6096

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

henebry wrote:

Spaceman wrote:

I could be wrong (should really make that my sig), but I think only gamma radiation is electromagnetic, and what we think of as "radiation", the stuff Geiger counters go all beepy over (technical term) includes alpha and beta radiation, which are particles, which it doesn't affect.

True, but the other kinds (Alpha and Beta) are charged particles, which means they can be steered using powerful magnetic fields. So, though I also may be wrong, I think it's the gamma and not the other radiation that poses the biggest threat to manned space flight.

Nope, the biggest threat is the charged particles emitted from the sun at close to the speed of light during solar flares and coronal mass ejections that pose the largest risk to manned spaceflight.

Most of the E/M radiation that the sun emits is in the visible, IR, and UV areas of the specturm. These aren't too hazardous to life.


The recent medical controversy over whether vaccinations cause autism reveals a habit of human cognition—thinking anecdotally comes naturally, whereas thinking scientifically does not. -- Michael Shermer

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#15 2006-10-19 7:53 pm

Switcher
Member
From: Beantown
Registered: 2004-02-18
Posts: 1202

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

Call me when they have  warp drives i am going to be the first outa this  madhouse


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#16 2006-10-19 8:36 pm

Account axed on request
Guest

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

Sounds pretty delicate right now, but maybe it'll eventually find a use in defense systems.  Not much good for fighting aliens though.

 

#17 2006-10-19 9:07 pm

ukimalefu
4 8 15 16 23 42
Moderator
From: time loop
Registered: 2002-09-09
Posts: 9725
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Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

Switcher wrote:

Call me when they have  warp drives i am going to be the first outa this  madhouse

They must develop inertial dampers first.

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#18 2006-10-19 9:09 pm

ctachme
Member
Registered: 2005-01-19
Posts: 116

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

DudetheCreator wrote:

Sounds pretty delicate right now, but maybe it'll eventually find a use in defense systems.  Not much good for fighting aliens though.

Unless they come from a star similar to ours and see in the same spectrum that we do, and thus we would be invisible to them.

Which come to think about it, isn't all that improbable, given that our star is pretty average.


"With the recent accomplishment of the manned lunar landing, the next frontier is manned exploration of the planets.... The 1981 manned Mars mission (1982 landing on Mars) is shown as an integral part of the total space program in the next two decades."

- Space Task Group August 4. 1969

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#19 2006-10-19 9:50 pm

Chickenhawk
Snark Snark Snark Snark
From: Being Snarky
Registered: 2005-06-01
Posts: 6096

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

ctachme wrote:

DudetheCreator wrote:

Sounds pretty delicate right now, but maybe it'll eventually find a use in defense systems.  Not much good for fighting aliens though.

Unless they come from a star similar to ours and see in the same spectrum that we do, and thus we would be invisible to them.

Which come to think about it, isn't all that improbable, given that our star is pretty average.

Most of the stars put out most of their energy in the visible specturm.


The recent medical controversy over whether vaccinations cause autism reveals a habit of human cognition—thinking anecdotally comes naturally, whereas thinking scientifically does not. -- Michael Shermer

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#20 2006-10-19 11:13 pm

Freezer mac
iPod scroll wheel
From: next to a big cold lake.
Registered: 2001-01-06
Posts: 7372

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

knobtwirler wrote:

Still, there's no earth's electromagnetic field to protect you in space.

so why dont you just make your own EM field.... the earth's field is at most 0.07 milliTesla ... wink

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#21 2006-10-20 1:21 am

akb825
ph34r teh master sword
From: In a secluded room
Registered: 2003-12-25
Posts: 6464
Website

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

Well, to produce an EM field, all you really need to have is light, and wouldn't do much against fast-moving charged particles. wink Now a magnetic field might do something for you. tongue

There are a few issues that I'm wondering about this that aren't answered, such as if it can work with any shape (since I'm assuming that this isn't just some magical field, it's actually coated with this material) and, if you're inside a tank, how you can manage to bend all the light around you... and still see where you're going. tongue


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#22 2006-10-20 2:13 am

resedit
Chicken Little
Royal Wombat
From: /dev/null
Registered: 1999-11-01
Posts: 51800
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Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

I'll be impressed when they figure out how to turn water into wine.


There are two kinds of people who keep rattlesnakes.
Those who have been bit, and those who will be bit. - Al Wolf.

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#23 2006-10-20 8:52 am

dv
Negusa Negest
Moderator
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: 1999-08-30
Posts: 18375

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

resedit wrote:

I'll be impressed when they figure out how to turn water into wine.

Party pooper.


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#24 2006-10-20 11:10 am

oatmeal
the clueless ones
Royal Wombat
Registered: 2002-08-07
Posts: 609
Website

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

DudetheCreator wrote:

Not much good for fighting aliens though.

Naah.  How could you deploy it across the entire border?

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#25 2006-10-20 11:30 am

Phydeaux
Watching, Listening and Waiting
From: Hopin You'll Turn Out Th'Light
Registered: 2001-05-11
Posts: 29999
Website

Re: It's a cloaked ship! Raise Shields, Mr. Sulu!

oatmeal wrote:

DudetheCreator wrote:

Not much good for fighting aliens though.

Naah.  How could you deploy it across the entire border?

We'd apply it to that crazy wall we're building that's so hueg liek xbox so that when the aliens try to scale it, they don't know how far to throw their grapplers. And will miss. Frequently.


Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.

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