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#2 2007-01-12 10:06 pm
- after-life
- Member

- Registered: 2003-12-25
- Posts: 2370
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
Hopefully this will close up some security flaws.
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#3 2007-01-12 10:20 pm
- macnuke
- just a plano guy
- Moderator

- From: North Dallas 40
- Registered: 2004-05-16
- Posts: 7132
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
MS just wants to sell more Word licenses.
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#4 2007-01-12 10:30 pm
- mo' ron
- PS3 4 EVA

- From: NC, USA
- Registered: 2002-10-15
- Posts: 14242
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
I view my email in plain text anyway... email doesn't need all that crap. I raise my glass to MS on this one.
What is the difference between Vista and OSX?
- Microsoft employees are excited about OSX.
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#5 2007-01-12 11:49 pm
- MattElmore
- Member

- From: Tuscaloosa, AL
- Registered: 2003-02-28
- Posts: 1778
- Website
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
HTML has no place in email
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#6 2007-01-13 12:02 am
- ephemeron
- Member
- Registered: 2003-06-23
- Posts: 226
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
I'm not a particular fan of HTML email either, but the thing that jumps out at me here is that Word contains its own HTML rendering engine. That just seems unnecessarily inefficient.
(Of course, my first Mac had a hard drive just barely big enough to hold the current version of Word -- the application only, none of the other files -- so I've been finding Word unnecessarily inefficient since version 6.0.)
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#7 2007-01-13 12:05 am
- HackerJax
- Previous Poster

- From: *unknown*
- Registered: 2002-07-13
- Posts: 4871
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
I'm running outlook 2007 and I can't say that I've noticed a single difference in how HTML emails show when I read them.
I don't have IE 7 installed, still 6 but I don't think this makes a difference in how outlook runs.

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#8 2007-01-13 4:07 am
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
I wish Microsoft would take email back 6 years and release Outlook for Mac OS again . . .
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#9 2007-01-13 6:29 am
- avkills
- demyelinated brain matter

- Registered: 2001-05-09
- Posts: 7094
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
Good. Email with images and other fluff in them pisses me off. HTML in email is a total waste of bandwidth.
-mark
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#10 2007-01-13 6:30 am
- reece_james
- TheLAD

- From: Wollongong, Australia.
- Registered: 2001-12-01
- Posts: 3790
- Website
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
I wish MS went back 30 years and stayed there.
This is an interesting move and actually a good one. I'm starting to appreciate plain text more and more. Especially until email and web pages are redesigned for the next 50 years...
Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.
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#11 2007-01-13 6:46 am
- mahakali
- anti-razor

- From: easter egg
- Registered: 2002-11-06
- Posts: 5584
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
reece_james wrote:
I wish MS went back 30 years and stayed there.
This is an interesting move and actually a good one. I'm starting to appreciate plain text more and more. Especially until email and web pages are redesigned for the next 50 years...
Though I prefer plain text, this move is like emptying your house to prevent thieves. There's no harm in allowing styles, the harm is when the email has embedded files like gif attachments, css file, or something that's on a remote server and can be used to track down whether the email address is valid or when/if the recipient open the email.
An email client should give users a choice to display html or not, not forcing them to read in html or plain text.
1. Instill fear.
2. ???????? (use your imagination)
3. Profit!
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#12 2007-01-13 8:19 am
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
"HTML has no place in email."
"I like plain text anyway."
"In my day, you crawled 18 miles through snow and broken glass to get your mail, and you LIKED it!"
Christ, you people need an enema.
Reality has a liberal bias.
Real men wear kilts.
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#13 2007-01-13 8:28 am
- Shadowless
- Cpl, USMC

- From: Jacksonville, NC
- Registered: 2005-10-10
- Posts: 3061
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
Though I find that most HTML or otherwise wastefully large e-mails are junk mail, it makes the file no smaller when it is sent or recieved just because it DISPLAYS it in a strange way.
There's no reason to prevent something from showing up, afaik. And I suppose that most e-mail apps allow you to view everything you get in plain text, right? I've never tried it, but I think my friend does that and he says it works well for him.
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#14 2007-01-13 10:07 am
- test
- Member
- From: Collingwood, Ont., CANADA
- Registered: 2002-12-13
- Posts: 5300
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
Northwind wrote:
"HTML has no place in email."
"I like plain text anyway."
"In my day, you crawled 18 miles through snow and broken glass to get your mail, and you LIKED it!"
Christ, you people need an enema.
Not me - I use Metamucil. Works great.
And mail is still my favourite email client.
Patience is a virtue of the weak for it makes them stand still long enough for the strong to crush them with ease.
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#15 2007-01-13 10:35 am
- Shadowless
- Cpl, USMC

- From: Jacksonville, NC
- Registered: 2005-10-10
- Posts: 3061
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
test wrote:
:snip:
And mail is still my favourite email client.
are we surprised?
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#16 2007-01-13 10:56 am
- mo' ron
- PS3 4 EVA

- From: NC, USA
- Registered: 2002-10-15
- Posts: 14242
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
ephemeron wrote:
I'm not a particular fan of HTML email either, but the thing that jumps out at me here is that Word contains its own HTML rendering engine. That just seems unnecessarily inefficient.
(Of course, my first Mac had a hard drive just barely big enough to hold the current version of Word -- the application only, none of the other files -- so I've been finding Word unnecessarily inefficient since version 6.0.)
Word has had an HTML engine for a while, the Mac version too.
What is the difference between Vista and OSX?
- Microsoft employees are excited about OSX.
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#17 2007-01-13 11:20 am
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
People still use outlook and IE for that matter?
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#18 2007-01-13 11:35 am
- mtpalms
- plz stand by

- From: Telstar
- Registered: 2002-09-16
- Posts: 4534
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
Avari wrote:
People still use outlook and IE for that matter?
At work. I'm at my boss's mercy.
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#19 2007-01-13 12:22 pm
- Donkey Butter
- jerk face

- From: over yonder
- Registered: 2005-12-14
- Posts: 2444
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
I like html in emails. why wouldn't ms just disable html as a default and then if you wanted to view it you could turn it on. chances are most windows users would leave it the way ms defaulted it anyway.
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#21 2007-01-13 2:02 pm
- HackerJax
- Previous Poster

- From: *unknown*
- Registered: 2002-07-13
- Posts: 4871
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
Donkey Butter wrote:
I like html in emails. why wouldn't ms just disable html as a default and then if you wanted to view it you could turn it on. chances are most windows users would leave it the way ms defaulted it anyway.
Yeah I don't get it, they basically do this now anyway.
in outlook 2007 by default images etc. will not show up in an HTML email until you specifically allow it.

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#22 2007-01-13 3:39 pm
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
Then I definitely feel they are going in the wrong direction then. Ideally a company should increase or maintain potential user capability and convenience while being maintaining security. If a user then does something to loosen their security for the sake of convenience it's their responsibility. Being upfront and honest in what certain changes entail in terms of convenience and security only helps matters.
For instance
[ ] Text: Decreases the risk of being compromised by malicious emails but may cause incompatibles in how certain types of emails are displayed and handled
[ ] HTML: Increases the risk of being compromised by malicious emails but displays and handles certain types of emails more effectively
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#23 2007-01-13 10:51 pm
- reece_james
- TheLAD

- From: Wollongong, Australia.
- Registered: 2001-12-01
- Posts: 3790
- Website
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
HTML, Flash, email all suck. Really, really, really suck. They were never designed for the current makeup of the web and are going to have to be replaced/updated in the future. I'll be betting on google making the move towards a better web.
Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.
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#24 2007-01-14 11:18 am
- ballistik
- Member
- Registered: 2006-06-01
- Posts: 29
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
lol!! Microsoft goes backwards, Apple goes forwards... sounds like Bill Gates wants to be where Apple was in the late 80's/early to mid 90's. That's fine by me!!
Outlook has ALWAYS sucked, and it will continue to suck big hard cold eggs.
Geeks and microshaft fans will come up with something like "its more secure" and we'll just laugh in their faces while we browse rich html email on our iphones, won't we? ;-)
-B
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#25 2007-01-14 12:31 pm
- dv
- Negusa Negest
- Moderator

- From: Minneapolis, MN
- Registered: 1999-08-30
- Posts: 18085
Re: Microsoft Takes Email back 5 years
ScifiterX wrote:
Then I definitely feel they are going in the wrong direction then. Ideally a company should increase or maintain potential user capability and convenience while being maintaining security. If a user then does something to loosen their security for the sake of convenience it's their responsibility. Being upfront and honest in what certain changes entail in terms of convenience and security only helps matters.
For instance[ ] Text: Decreases the risk of being compromised by malicious emails but may cause incompatibles in how certain types of emails are displayed and handled
[ ] HTML: Increases the risk of being compromised by malicious emails but displays and handles certain types of emails more effectively
Bah - plain text email is plenty consistent, except for stupid word wrap behavior. We could have had a standard behavior in place 20 years ago, but somebody dropped that ball.
HTML just makes it look prettier. It's certainly no more consistent.
I personally think Wordpad/TextEdit should be used as email rendering engines. Italics/bold and the odd picture or two is nice. If you want people to see your web site, email them a url.
"Now commences the process of cutting off the head, which generally takes from an hour to an hour and a half by an expert workman with a sharp blade." -Reuben Delano, Wanderings and Adventures
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