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In texas we give a standardized test to the students to see if they have been taught all that they should have, in order for them to move to the next grade, graduate, and whether the schools will keep thier funding. (A great George Bush program)

Only problem, it doesn't have much to do with the curriculum, it is given in the middle of the school year, not at the end, and because of the importance politically and economically, the teachers teach the test, not the curriculum.

So more stress, less well educated students, and a poorer educated population. If this program were working then an independent check would revel the rise in capability, such as in SAT and ACT scores in Texas students rising. No statistically significant change in scores upward has appeared.

zerocool90 wrote:

Generally speaking, Unions are an outdated, selfserving political entity that provides only temporary "help" for workers and tries to sidestep the free-market in a fashion that is attempting to kill American capitalism at the highest levels (IE the automotive market)

people like to piss on walmart, but you know what, walmart makes more crap affordable to more people who are on the lower side of finances than  the government could hope to (in a sustained fashion) and not only that, it employes a friggin lot of them too.

I agree that unions have too much power.
Unfortunately, the day unions go away is the day they are truly needed again.

Even non union companies feel pressure from them to do the right thing.

I just wish there was a way to keep unions from getting too much power.

Aqua OS X wrote:

As for Gate's tech grants, personally, I think they're a good idea. They're not handed out willy nilly, you need to have a plan to use that money to actually help kids. It's not just placing a computer in the back of the class.
http://www.gatesfoundation.org/UnitedSt … wYear=2007

I've been in a district that got a gates grant. It turned into a kick back for the IT department buying computers above retail cost (I kid you not, they were intentionally getting ripped off/paid off). The "requirements" are usually also something stupid like having the kids use powerpoint. That may not seem like a lot but the only brand name ever listed in any of the curriculum was Microsoft Powerpoint. I wonder why they make everyone use Microsoft Powerpoint every year regardless of the project and how well that project could be presented using other mediums other than Microsoft Powerpoint.

kb5zhh wrote:

smurfing powerpoint.  There is no reason whatsoever for kids to learn powerpoint.

why?

Drew1369 wrote:

kb5zhh wrote:

smurfing powerpoint.  There is no reason whatsoever for kids to learn powerpoint.

why?

Powerpoint makes you stupid.
[list]
[*]You have to write in bullet points
[*] It emphasizes flashy graphics over substance
[*]It is far more important to learn how to write/speak in complex forms
[/list]

End the pretense.

Two streams; one stream teaches kids how to sell goods and services, and the other stream teaches kids how to shop.  Field trips to malls for everyone.

Sturner you are correct...PP has no need to be in a math, english, or arts class, but a computer class?  I would believe it would be of high importance to teach all MS office programs in a computer class as 99% of all businesses in the US use MS office.

Learning PP doesn't make you stupid, you can learn how NOT to add flashy things to a PP project and add the substance to it.  Most people make it flashy because they were never taught properly.  So teaching kids how to use it earlier inlife might be a better solution, as I believe that HS and college should prepare you for the real world were you will be using these programs on a daily basis.

A computer class is not about a particular program. Computer classes are about computers. Which equates to computer science, which is programming, not using a single program. Familiarization is different. Even then when you teach using a particular program you aren't teaching that program you should be teaching doing a particular skill, which that program can assist or enhance.

Thus if you are working on typography or writing, you might want to illustrate those things using a program that allowed you to make styles or templates.

kb5zhh wrote:

Better would be a class on speech, with a unit on presentation software.

Or rather, how to give a speech with a presentation software assisting. Most speech classes find PowerPoint to be anathma.

I see your points... yes computer science class is about computers... and I need to learn howto generalize better... I don't mean JUST MS office but other programs as well... I feel HS would be better if teaching students how to first be able to USE a computer/program(any) then move on to possibly programming from there.

Yes PP should only be used as a punctuation to a speech, but we all know how it's really used.

When I was going thru Airmen Leadership School to put on my SSgt stripes we were not allowed to use PP for our first speech, and the second and third speech we were only allowed to have pictures... so they were trying to show us other ways, but as soon as I went back to operational status I had to give a presentation and my commander wanted it as a PP presentation.

So yes, teaching kids how to use multiple programs is fine, but give them the tools they are going to need to be more successful, not ideals on how things "should" be done, but how they "are" going to be done.

No amount of change in the school system is going to change the world.

<Insert Luddite rant of your choice here>

And that about sums it up. Except <insert anit-Microsoft rant here>.

I suppose we just need smarter intellectuals and teachers.

NAG wrote:

Yes, kids should be taught basic skills, not given a yearly, day long lecture on the virtues of powerpoint starting in elementary school (I kid you not, they require a day long lecture on how to use powerpoint). This isn't a 'computer class' either. Computer wise, kids should be taught to use computers as tools when they need to use them. Not to use the tool because they were told to and find a reason to use it, as often happens with powerpoint.

The gates grant is just another special interest mandating school activities because they have money.

I wasn't aware of that... good god, thats just pointless.

Elementary students shouldn't be taught that crap... HS yes for the basics, elementary hell no.

Aqua OS X wrote:

"unions!!! <grumble><grumble><fart>"

IMHO this union thing is a ridiculous generalization that's being bounced around by people who aren't even acknowledging, among other things, state law, the tenure process, faculty review, the PTA, etc. I'm sorry, but "unions" are probably not to blame for your incompetent history teacher who insists on every other day being "video day." These teacher's union rants strike me as out of touch, to say the least.

I've got two examples.

One of my little brothers is deaf and autistic.
His IEP says he is entitled to a one on one signing aide.
The union says an aide can not make more than a teacher, but hearing people who sign well can make more money as interpreters than teachers make.

Thus - he never has an aid that knows how to sign.

One day mom got a phone call saying J**** needed to be picked up from school because he had a tooth ache. Turns out this braniac of a teacher decided to have a movie day where all the kids were required to sit down and watcha movie (I think it was finding nemo). He's deaf and autistic, he doesn't care about that - so he was signing "disapointed" by pointing his finger in his mouth because he was bored.

Rather than realizing it was a rare moment where he was communicating a real emotion - the aide who knew next to no sign thought he was complaining about a toothe ache.

All because the Union will not allow the school district to pay a signing aide what a signing person demands on the fair market.

On another occasion a teacher did something incredibly stupid and mom chewed her out. That evening CPS shows up claiming there was a report of an abusive home. That smurfing smurf didn't like being chewed out - so she abused the CPS system for retaliation. Of course CPS found absolutely no signs of abuse, but it was a major inconvenience to have them come.

The situation was explained to the principle, he agreed that the teacher was clearly in the wrong - both in what she did to get chewed out and in then calling CPS - but he could not take any disciplinary action.

I'm sorry - the teachers union is a major major problem with our education system. There are some very good teachers who deserve to be paid a lot more money, but there are also some idiots who are teaching for no other reason than they couldn't make it in the real world. They need to be expunged from the education system. They need to be fired and kicked out on their asses.