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btw - the excellent california school for the deaf doesn't want J**** because he isn't normal enough for them, so that is not an option.

"resedit wrote:

I'm sorry - the teachers union is a major major problem with our education system. There are some very good teachers who deserve to be paid a lot more money, but there are also some idiots who are teaching for no other reason than they couldn't make it in the real world. They need to be expunged from the education system. They need to be fired and kicked out on their asses.

Yeah, I hate to say there are bad teachers, but there really are. I mean, the education departments at universities I'm familiar with are usually filled with people who couldn't handle any other major. Yeah, I'm over generalizing here but it really looks like it is where we send people to get their degree and leave.

I don't see why a good teacher shouldn't make a salary comparable to a business professional.

The bargain would be that teachers would be paid and treated as professionals, but as a consequence, would have to dump the unions.  Oh, and no more tenure.  They're teachers, not professors.

To go with the rigorous hiring requirements there would absolutely have to be a comparable (if not greater) pay increase. By having low pay and low requirements you obviously get bad teachers now and again. Just raising the pay or raising the requirements will only result in a continued bad situation.

And kick the special interest groups out of education. They don't belong in it. We don't need absurd requirements dictated by the bureaucracy if we have good teachers.

You don't need a bureaucracy micromanaging your teachers if you hire quality teachers. Yes, you're right about the tax payers demanding some sort of number or result. And they are completely delusional. You don't see the results from education for years. It isn't a linear process of a -> b -> c.

Frankly the taxpayers have a completely screwed up idea as to what public education is about. They think it is a daycare most of the time where the teacher has to do everything for the parents, which requires the bloated bureaucratic oversight (that leads to special interest group pork barrels).

Teaching shouldn't be a Ford assembly line.

Are public school teachers really underpaid?  They're paid substantially more than private school teachers, and quite well in comparison to other jobs.

Last edited by charon (2007-02-22 3:20 pm)

Some are, but entry-level teachers make next to nothing.  An average isn't really telling.  It's not easy to attract professionals with graduate degrees to a profession that pays around $20K/year.  It also varies greatly on the school district and relative cost of living.  School teachers here in SF make a lot of money compared to teachers in Kansas, but the cost of living here is much higher.

The op-ed pieced linked is also a little misleading.  Many teachers spend their summers off taking classes to stay current (most professionals have some sort of continuing education reqirement).  Or they teach summer school.  It's not like the have the option of working during that time.  If anything, this is an argument for a longer school year - not lower teacher salaries.  The only way for them to compensate would be to take some sort of temp gig during the summer.

Read the summary, res.

NAG wrote:

Aqua OS X wrote:

As for Gate's tech grants, personally, I think they're a good idea. They're not handed out willy nilly, you need to have a plan to use that money to actually help kids. It's not just placing a computer in the back of the class.
http://www.gatesfoundation.org/UnitedSt … wYear=2007

I've been in a district that got a gates grant. It turned into a kick back for the IT department buying computers above retail cost (I kid you not, they were intentionally getting ripped off/paid off). The "requirements" are usually also something stupid like having the kids use powerpoint. That may not seem like a lot but the only brand name ever listed in any of the curriculum was Microsoft Powerpoint. I wonder why they make everyone use Microsoft Powerpoint every year regardless of the project and how well that project could be presented using other mediums other than Microsoft Powerpoint.

Definitely lame. Although it was a grant, so the grant writer most likely put that PowerPoint BS in the grant, not the foundation.

That said, I recall hearing that the grants were a lot easier to get early on. I think Gate's noted that when he was speaking with Clinton a few months ago. Someone asked a question about how the foundation keeps lame grants in-check when they're dealing with a huge pot of money. Bill noted that the foundation was a sloppy at first but they have a decent review process now.

I think you need a legitimately valuable plan to get money now. Getting a grant for Image Writer ribbon ink & Print Shop banner supplies might be hard to pull off.

Might as well extend that to military as well.

I think part of the explanation that there is a shortage of teachers in public but not private, is that there are a lot less hassles in private school, from the government, from the school board, from the students.

Teachers are underpaid.

Go to a graduating class of any decent university and see how many of the students plan to become public school teachers. Public schools simply don't pay enough to attract the talent they need, and provide an incentive to stay.

A few generations ago we were able to get great teachers at bargain basement prices, because it was one of the few jobs that was available to women. Now women can get professional jobs, so we have to respond by greatly increasing salaries.

Today's new public school teachers are mostly incompetents coming from half-assed state colleges, and even they only teach for a few years before getting better-paid private sector jobs.