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Wow, I have so many things to say about this topic, I hope I get them all.

I am a teacher, I will just get that out there right now.

The first issue I would like to deal with is paying teachers better will get us better teachers. Throughout all of my education classes I was told on day one "If you are in this profession for the money, you might as well leave this class right now." I could care less if I made one cent a day, my purpose in life is to educate the future. Many, but not all, of my colleagues felt the same way. The "bad teachers" come from the people who are in it for the money and the 3 months off in the summer and paid holidays etc. These are also the people that are under the assumption that Early Childhood Education Degree (which is the degree that I have) is the equivalent to a Degree in Coloring. Education is not easy and I give props to my University for actually have EXTREMELY competitive standards just to be accepted into the college of Education. I am hoping that this will become the trend everywhere so that the people who are just there to slack off and look forward to their vacations would be weeded out.

The aforementioned people however, are the ones who get into a classroom and begin a countdown to how many days are left to the end of the school year. They sit in their classroom and cannot wait until the day is over. How could these people be good teachers if they are not giving their students their all? With this being said, yes, bad teachers exist and they need to be removed, just as Jobbs said. I can GUARANTEE that one of these people got a job over someone who was much more motivated and would have been much more dedicated to their work, but got overlooked for one reason or another.

As for unions, I am not represented by my union and I still get one hell of a deal with all of my benefits, pay, etc. so maybe the problem is just poor school district administration for people who chose to not be a part of the union, not the union itself?

Standards are, what seems to be a generic consensus among teachers, the root of all evil. They create too much pressure not only on the students but the teachers. In most states now the students take their standardized tests to see if they have mastered the concepts for the year. If not, who is held responsible? The students, OF COURSE NOT! The teachers! We get reprimanded and scolded for teaching to the best of our abilities, and it is also our fault if the student just did not put forth the effort and failed the test.

The biggest struggle for educators today is that there appears to be a lack of parent existence. I am always surprised at the lack of support by parents. We never had this problem before when parents laid down the law when the kid was completely out of line, homework was expected to be done, and chores were expected to be done. Kids today have no sense of responsibility, therefore they come to school with the same attitude. This attitude puts the "bad teachers" in a fouler mood than they were already and the student ends up never caring out school.

Steve Jobbs had every right and good reason to say what he said. Bad teachers help no one.

Why is it that I, whose training and knowledge about training, note I did not say education, comes from the military, knows more about educational theory than do the silly congresspeople who are making up the rules for these standardized tests? I speak about the Texas TAKS test. The implementation of it, the administration of it,  the construction of it, and the timing of it, have little to do with the curriculum that is found in our schools, or the school schedule.

It's entire purpose seems to be to test and destroy. Failure to achieve punishes the school with withdrawal of resources and removal of principals. At no point does it do the most BASIC of educational and training functions. TEST what is taught, and provide data to improve the process.

This is an indication that those who advocated it, and support it don't know what the SMURF they are talking about.

We have a billion dollar quality process industry in this country, and these tests ignore what that industry says about producing quality.

1. Create a conrete standard.
2. Test to that standard.
3. When discrepancies appear and the testing is below minimum standard score, find the weakness and repair it.

Bush wouldn't have made it through High School under this policy in Texas, and wouldn't pass under No Child left Behind either.

:::Throws a few kernals in kevs general direction:::

Last edited by sturner (2007-02-22 11:05 pm)

sturner wrote:

Why is it that I, whose training and knowledge about training, note I did not say education, comes from the military, knows more about educational theory than do the silly congresspeople who are making up the rules for these standardized tests? I speak about the Texas TAKS test. The implementation of it, the administration of it,  the construction of it, and the timing of it, have little to do with the curriculum that is found in our schools, or the school schedule.

It's entire purpose seems to be to test and destroy. Failure to achieve punishes the school with withdrawal of resources and removal of principals. At no point does it do the most BASIC of educational and training functions. TEST what is taught, and provide data to improve the process.

This is an indication that those who advocated it, and support it don't know what the SMURF they are talking about.

We have a billion dollar quality process industry in this country, and these tests ignore what that industry says about producing quality.

1. Create a conrete standard.
2. Test to that standard.
3. When discrepancies appear and the testing is below minimum standard score, find the weakness and repair it.

Bush wouldn't have made it through High School under this policy in Texas, and wouldn't pass under No Child left Behind either.

Why would they construct a test that would actually be part of a system to improve public schools?
Thats not the actual goal you know.

Last edited by Pariah (2007-02-23 5:51 am)

Well when your president is learning disabled that isn't exactly hard to believe.

Alien wrote:

Teachers aren't just underpaid.

The teaching profession has suffered a devastating decline in respect and social standing, as well.

I daresay that is hurting it more than merely the "lousy" pay.

,xtG
.tsooJ

The right has been waging a none stop war on teachers for going on 28 years now, actually longer, but it's fair to say it started in earnest under Reagan.
I would agree that likely dissuades many good teaching candidates.

Farmerkev wrote:

Pariah wrote:

Alien wrote:

Teachers aren't just underpaid.

The teaching profession has suffered a devastating decline in respect and social standing, as well.

I daresay that is hurting it more than merely the "lousy" pay.

,xtG
.tsooJ

The right has been waging a none stop war on teachers for going on 28 years now, actually longer, but it's fair to say it started in earnest under Reagan.
I would agree that likely dissuades many good teaching candidates.

The left has done nothing but roll over on their backs and spread their legs for the teachers for even longer.
I daresay we wouldn't have bad teachers if it weren't for liberal policies.

(2 can play troll)

The right has done much more than simply point out flaws in the system, they have directly attacked teaching as a career choice.
All you have to do is look at the ridiculous accommodations the right wants to make to Luddite religionists in schools to see that education" is low on the rights priorities. At the local level you have 2 types of people running for school boards: Centrists and liberals concerned about education and conservatives who are concerned with sneaking the bible in where ever they can.
But the truth is the right has always been conflicted about education, being that so much of their dogma requires blind faith rather than an informed understanding.
The right will give lip service to "improving" public schools but the bottom line is their goal is and always has been the elimination of public schools entirely.

:mutters something about pots, kettles and #000000

Daddyo wrote:

It is amazing how you are so blinded by you fear and hatred of religion and conservatives. It must be gratifying to live in a world where everything you don't understand is caused by religious or conservative thinking, that way you don't actually have to understand anything.

Should I be getting a different impression from you in regard to "liberals?"  For every bad thing Pariah has to say about "conservatives," you seem to nothing but negative or insulting comments to make concerning "liberals."

Ooooo, I love pictures!

Pariah wrote:

Farmerkev wrote:

bratboy wrote:

Oh, there's a good motto to live by!

Someone had to point it out. He doesn't take subtle hints, guess I'll have to start adding pictures.

Meh, you have dropped out of the debate and have settled into simply snarky sniping.

There is no discussion possible with a troll who's mind is closed and only spouts overly broad accusations.
One other thing, this isn't a debate society or contest.

Farmerkev wrote:

[...] this isn't a debate society [...]

Oh?

,xtG
.tsooJ