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#1 2007-03-02 1:41 pm

Denali
Chuck Baldwin McCain OR John McCain for hope
From: Mile High, CO
Registered: 2005-06-29
Posts: 1080
Website

What Software do you use?

I just got my new 20" imac:Dbig_smile however, I am having problems with my web development.

I use to use Claris Home Page 3.0, but obviously it is not supported on the new iMac.  Is there another good wysiwyg program out there similar to Claris HP?  I don't have a lot of cash, maybe  $40 at the most.  Can any recommend a good program?

What am I using it for?  Well, simple static page development right now.  Though I do need to add a shopping cart.  I may need to add a username and password screen, but not sure if I need to yet.

Any ideas?  Thanks.

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#2 2007-03-02 2:02 pm

edman007
Yay, Post Count is Back!!!
From: /^\/(?:Users|home)\/edman007$/
Registered: 2003-03-12
Posts: 1560
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

Cyberduck FTP and related program, should do everything you need to get your files to the server
Nvu wysiwyg editor that i hear is good, but I don't use wysiwyg editors at all, only text editors

the above two are free, the next two are not

SubEthaEdit/TextMate are two excellent text editors


MBP 15 - 2GB - 100GB/7200rpm
microsoft--
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#3 2007-03-02 3:45 pm

b_dubb
loch whatchamacallit
From: chapel hill, nc
Registered: 2002-11-19
Posts: 510
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

i like Taco but its not WYSIWYG

try Mozilla.  it has an authoring tool built into it.  if you don't mind the huge footprint.

my office mate uses TextMate ... confused .... er .... and he loves it.  mate.

Last edited by b_dubb (2007-03-02 3:51 pm)


"The Fates lead he who will; he who won't, they drag." - Seneca

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#4 2007-03-02 5:23 pm

Light Speed
Doubter of Einstein
Registered: 2002-08-17
Posts: 3694

Re: What Software do you use?

Try learning how to code yourself. It is not hard and will make you a better web designer. There are TONS of places on the web to learn for free.

Most wysiwyg apps make crappy bloated code anyway.

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#5 2007-03-02 6:54 pm

CurtisS
Que pasa?
From: Kingston, WA USA
Registered: 2004-02-24
Posts: 245
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

For editing, check out HyperEdit. Nice app and cheap too.

http://www.tumultco.com/HyperEdit/

For FTP on Mac, I like Transmit.

http://www.panic.com/transmit/


Ciao!


Ciao for now!

CurtisS

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#6 2007-03-02 7:16 pm

justG
Member
From: LI, NY, US
Registered: 2006-10-09
Posts: 416

Re: What Software do you use?

Denali, try Apple's own iWeb (included in the iLife suite) or, for some more flexibility, try RapidWeaver. If you want something that's easy to learn and will *quickly* spit out (template-based) aesthetically pleasant and functional web sites, I highly recommend RW. It's got fantastic community support behind it, lots of doodads you can plug into it, and its price is less than what you want to spend (by 5 cents). =]

Learning to produce web sites from scratch is great, but it's not for everyone. If you're planning to invest some time into it, make a couple different sites, sites for friends, or plan to really build on your own site in the future, then yeah, grab a text editor and learn (X)HTML and CSS; but if you just want to get something up and running that works and looks good, you'll be happy with RapidWeaver. Be sure to check out Realmac Software's RapidWeaver screencasts 'n' things at the learning center.

Hope that helps.


http://imagegen.last.fm/basicrt10/recenttracks/3/justG.gif

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#7 2007-03-02 9:42 pm

Denali
Chuck Baldwin McCain OR John McCain for hope
From: Mile High, CO
Registered: 2005-06-29
Posts: 1080
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

I sort of like Nvu, it will take some getting use to however.

iWeb is ok, but I was having trouble fighting the templates.  Even when I open a "blank" page, there is stuff there that gets in my way.  I hate templates anyway.  They never do what I want them to, or look the way I think they should.

I may try RapidWeaver if Nvu doesn't seem to work.

I am trying to learn XHTML myself, but this page is for my dad's business.  I don't have time to learn how to do it from scratch, though I can make improvements as I go.

Thanks for the help guys.  I'm sure with the suggestions I'll have something that will work for me until I learn to program on my own.

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#8 2007-03-03 12:06 am

justG
Member
From: LI, NY, US
Registered: 2006-10-09
Posts: 416

Re: What Software do you use?

If you hate templates, avoid RapidWeaver like the plague. And it sounds like you're intending to learn to produce web sites from the scratch at some point in the not too distant future; if that's the case, RapidWeaver would be a waste of your money.

I revise my recommendation and advise you to use Nvu for your Dad's site so you can get it done quickly, and then take the money you save on a WYSIWYG solution and invest it in a decent webdev-oriented text editor.

Good luck with your decision. smile


http://imagegen.last.fm/basicrt10/recenttracks/3/justG.gif

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#9 2007-03-03 7:13 pm

wgabrie
Member
From: Jamesport, NY, USA
Registered: 2001-11-02
Posts: 50
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

I use Amaya <http://www.w3.org/Amaya/>.

What can I say? This from W3C, it supports many standards (html 4; xhtml basic, frameset, 1.0, 1.1; svg; limited xml). It has a code checker that tells you if your markup is valid.

This program will make you want to learn to hand-code HTML. The graphic viewer is rather basic and sucky with css effects, plus I think the program inserts invisible format codes into its files to format them. It runs slow too. big_smile

Last edited by wgabrie (2007-03-03 7:14 pm)

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#10 2007-03-06 1:48 am

Scott
Zombie Gorilla
From: Oregon
Registered: 2002-12-07
Posts: 3446
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

TextMate (I use so much, it is in my startup items)
DevonThinkPro (project mgt)
Fireworks
CSSEdit2
Transmit
Terminal


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#11 2007-03-06 8:47 pm

Gipetto
Yankee Doodle's noodle
Royal Wombat
From: People! Ahg!!
Registered: 2000-09-24
Posts: 9941
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

I'm pretty much in Zend Studio for most of my day, though I'm starting to use SubEthaEdit more lately because if its Smarty syntax highlighting and because I can pretty easily freak out Zend with Javascript.

I have TextMate, but just can't get into it. I still really like skEdit for doing HTML & CSS, but I'm in PHP so much that Zend Studio was essential and very welcome.

I haven't gotten around to buying CSSEdit yet.
For FTP its all Transmit at home, but I have YummyFTP at work.

And I'll see Scott's Terminal and raise him a Console.

Last edited by Gipetto (2007-03-06 8:48 pm)

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#12 2007-03-06 10:00 pm

Scott
Zombie Gorilla
From: Oregon
Registered: 2002-12-07
Posts: 3446
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

I could never really get into Zend.  It's a little slow and it is limited to PHP.  It is nice and has many features, but just a bit too bulky for a single purpose.


http://www.greatgamesexperiment.com/images/logo_kit/468x60-Blue.gif

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#13 2007-03-06 11:22 pm

Gipetto
Yankee Doodle's noodle
Royal Wombat
From: People! Ahg!!
Registered: 2000-09-24
Posts: 9941
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

I'm doing mostly PHP right now so its good...
And on newer hardware (PB G4, 1.67) it runs really well.

Last edited by Gipetto (2007-03-06 11:22 pm)

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#14 2007-03-07 10:03 pm

Scott
Zombie Gorilla
From: Oregon
Registered: 2002-12-07
Posts: 3446
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

How well does it handle heavy OO stuff?


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#15 2007-03-08 1:18 pm

Gipetto
Yankee Doodle's noodle
Royal Wombat
From: People! Ahg!!
Registered: 2000-09-24
Posts: 9941
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

Very well. That's all I do any more.

Its great at loading definitions from user defined classes as well as function hinting that shows variables and types expected by the function. It also hints for functions added by inherited classes.

The only bad thing is that it won't process __autoload - which is most of what I'm working around now, so in program debugging is broken for me.

And, as far as I know, its the only program that really supports docBlock comments right now. It'll even build documentation for you based on them. So if you comment well...

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#16 2007-03-20 12:07 am

spinner
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2000-10-18
Posts: 276
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

I don't use WISIWYG stuff much, but there is a lot of free stuff that you should have as well.

Tools for writing
Text Wrangler

Firefox plugins
Tidy based validator
Firebug for JS, html, css help
Live Headers to debug post requests, and other header information

Server side stuff (manage shopping cart)
mySQL

Other stuff
Cyberduck FTP client

PHP is a pretty sound platform to develop with, although there are of course the usual well publicised issues (security...).  That, and debugging is a pain at times.

Text editors are a matter of choice, I like TextWrangler for the powerful find and replace (grep based search), built in FTP client and other nice things.  Learn how to use this stuff, it will save you time.

I would back up the suggestion of hand writing code, which is why I strongly recommend Firebug, it makes flogging CSS from other sites (or just working out how it all fits together) really easy.  Love or hate firefox, the range of plug-ins makes it the only choice for a development browser, although you can get Tidy for Safari...

Apart from that, stick to standards and you will be fine.  Better than bloated code from a WYSIWYG editor

Spinner

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#17 2007-03-20 1:09 pm

Antonio
Now with more cowbell!
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: 2007-01-16
Posts: 689
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

I use Apache, MySQL, PHP for the server stuff, and build on a content management system; usually Drupal.

The design work is then done in PHP and CSS, for which I use CSSEdit (I love this little application) and Apple XCode (free and very robust... I'm surprised more people aren't using it).

For FTP, I've been using FileZilla recently, as Cyberduck seems to hang when trying to download files. Cyberduck has a much cleaner interface, but the latest version just won't work for me.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, Drupal produces very clean code, and I'll second the notion about WYSIWYG editors producing bloated code.

Last edited by Antonio (2007-03-20 2:32 pm)

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#18 2007-03-20 4:17 pm

Basseq
Fixxy of F&S fame
From: D.C.
Registered: 2002-12-18
Posts: 3125
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

Apache, MySQL, PHP. I also do ASP .NET, J2EE, SQLServer, IIS, etc. if called for. Fetch, CocoaMySQL, TextMate, Photoshop, Illustrator, Terminal.


Basseq is me, John Whittet.
(Finishing the remainder of the thought expressed in the post has been left as an exercise for the reader.)

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#19 2007-03-20 6:14 pm

Rozzlapeed
Born to be IT
From: Scottsdale, AZ
Registered: 2003-01-02
Posts: 1095
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

I'm just starting out as a professional Java developer, but I use PHP for quick, personal projects like scripting my home server and my Dreamhost site.

I use NetBeans for Java when I'm running XP, Vim for everything when I'm running through a shell, and I'll use anything (Filezilla, rsync, Midnight Commander, lftp, smbclient, Subversion, etc...) for file transfer, depending on availability in the development environment and the size of the project.

I used to use Zend, but my trial license ran out. I love the SSH and subversion integration.


"He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
-- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

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#20 2007-03-20 7:21 pm

spinner
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2000-10-18
Posts: 276
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

Rozzlapeed wrote:

Vim for everything when I'm running through a shell

Yeah, Vi is pretty handy if you have shell access to the server.

I should have mentioned that the Terminal gives good ssh, ftp and sftp which makes life easier if you are happy jumping around through a command line.  I ended up using CyberDuck for odd reasons, it was slightly easier dealing with images from a site that was updating than through the command line.

I must say, I actively dislike JSP/Servelets, the code always seems clunky compared to the PHP and Tomcat is a pain in the butt to configure with Apache.

Also, I was reading that Panic was looking for beta testers for Transmit at the moment.

Spinner

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#21 2007-03-20 10:10 pm

Graphic Autist
Scumdog of the Universe
From: Antarctica
Registered: 2003-06-08
Posts: 1042
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

Uh...

I use Dreamweaver.

I suck.


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#22 2007-03-21 2:48 am

spinner
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2000-10-18
Posts: 276
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

Graphic Autist wrote:

Uh...

I use Dreamweaver.

I suck.

I wouldn't feel bad about Dreamweaver.  It is a pretty good product, especially later versions.  I am looking forward to getting the new Dreamweaver in CS3, it does have some useful tools.

I think the point here is that WYSIWYG editors have their limitations and in some cases produce really crappy code.

One of the biggest culprits is Word.  No-one in their right mind would use word, but it is pretty much the prime example of bad HTML generation. So for that, and a few other bad examples, WYSIWYG editors get panned.

I would strongly recommend running what ever code you end up with through Tidy, or more accurately the Firefox plugin that I suggested earlier.

But any editor is no replacement for an understanding about what you are doing...

Spinner

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#23 2007-03-21 10:40 am

Rozzlapeed
Born to be IT
From: Scottsdale, AZ
Registered: 2003-01-02
Posts: 1095
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

spinner wrote:

I must say, I actively dislike JSP/Servelets, the code always seems clunky compared to the PHP and Tomcat is a pain in the butt to configure with Apache.

I love servlets, but I hate JSPs. Half the trouble with Struts is all the configuration. My head is spinning from working on one such project right now.

One of these days, though, I'm going to learn how to develop n-tiered CMS's on Apache Cocoon + Jackrabbit, and the heavens will part, and you will see me descending on a cloud...


"He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
-- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

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#24 2007-03-21 11:03 am

Basseq
Fixxy of F&S fame
From: D.C.
Registered: 2002-12-18
Posts: 3125
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

1) Is anyone else, like, really stoked for CS3? Nerds.

2) I wish Rails was more prevalent. That smurf is cool.


Basseq is me, John Whittet.
(Finishing the remainder of the thought expressed in the post has been left as an exercise for the reader.)

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#25 2007-03-21 11:47 am

Rozzlapeed
Born to be IT
From: Scottsdale, AZ
Registered: 2003-01-02
Posts: 1095
Website

Re: What Software do you use?

Basseq wrote:

1) Is anyone else, like, really stoked for CS3? Nerds.

Two weeks ago, I found out how to edit any text field in windows using GVim by pressing a key combination. I wasted 8 hours of work time last Wednesday making a PHP5 Curl Object so I could scrape the basketball stats off the NCAA website and store them in a MySQL database. I was tasked with documenting a web application here at work in Visio, from which I got distracted because I started playing around with Visio's class hierarchy and inheritance model.

I'm sorry Basseq, but your trite little insult hardly does me any justice.


"He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
-- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

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