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#1 2007-04-11 5:30 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
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- Registered: 2001-05-25
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Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
Apparently reversing decades of established Church doctrine, Benedict XVI questions evolution theory
In a new book, "Creation and Evolution," published Wednesday in German, the pope praised progress gained by science, but cautioned that evolution raises philosophical questions science alone cannot answer.
"The question is not to either make a decision for a creationism that fundamentally excludes science, or for an evolutionary theory that covers over its own gaps and does not want to see the questions that reach beyond the methodological possibilities of natural science," the pope said.
He stopped short of endorsing intelligent design, but said scientific and philosophical reason must work together in a way that does not exclude faith.
Odd thing is, the Catholic Church has been perfectly cool with with evolution for many, many years, taking the view that evolution is a scientifically valid mechanism -- stopping only short when it comes to the genesis of life, crediting God with that.
Actually the real surprise, in my opinion, is the mere idea of jumping into the debate in the first place. He's just asking for a massive headache by doing so.
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#2 2007-04-11 5:39 pm
- Ribtorus
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Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
ShnickyShnack wrote:
He's just asking for a massive headache by doing so.
I doubt P. Benny posts in minithink.
when surrounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
and the women come out to cut up what remains,
just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
and go to your god like a soldier...
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#5 2007-04-11 6:02 pm
Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
That is a huge myth- the Catholic church has almost always qualified the official stance as accepting evolution as part of the creative process, and specifically that, not only life itself, but man also, are special cases (not totally explainable by evolution). So they never pushed for "creation science" like many Protestant groups in the US did, but obviously they believe God was involved to some degree as Creator.
I say see how it goes- it says he stopped short of embracing ID, so it very well could be just a clarification of the old stance and nothing else. Or maybe its the start of joining up with other creation-y science-like movements.
"Live with your head in the lion's mouth. I want you to overcome 'em with yeses, undermine 'em with grins, agree 'em to death and destruction, let 'em swoller you till they vomit or bust wide open." -Ralph Ellison
"Overpower, overcome" -Cro-Mags
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#6 2007-04-11 6:28 pm
Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
I'm just glad that his papacy will (hopefully) be short-lived.
It is an odd thing, but every one who disappears is said to be seen at San Francisco. It must be a delightful city, and possess all the attractions of the next world.
- Oscar Wilde
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#7 2007-04-11 6:35 pm
- JakeTheTall
- Cargo Cultist
- From: In Permanent Opposition
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Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
:: tries to resist Godwin-ing the thread ::
Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim. Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet." They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.
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#8 2007-04-11 6:44 pm
Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
How about calling him the Fuhrer of the Catholic Church? Is that close enough?
It is an odd thing, but every one who disappears is said to be seen at San Francisco. It must be a delightful city, and possess all the attractions of the next world.
- Oscar Wilde
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#9 2007-04-11 6:47 pm
- bedstuy
- Archimandrite, Eastern Elite
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Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
Metacell wrote:
Seems like a fairly noncommital argument to me.
Agreed. It's more in line with his constant anti-increasing European secularization stuff he's been hyping if anything.
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#10 2007-04-11 6:55 pm
- Aqua OS X
- Shark Sandwich
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Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
StaticAge wrote:
That is a huge myth- the Catholic church has almost always qualified the official stance as accepting evolution as part of the creative process, and specifically that, not only life itself, but man also, are special cases (not totally explainable by evolution). So they never pushed for "creation science" like many Protestant groups in the US did, but obviously they believe God was involved to some degree as Creator.
Well said.
As a recovering Catholic, I fail to see how this sets Benedict apart from John Paul. He may not be as likable or as articulate as John Paul, that said, this strikes me as the same 'ol same 'ol.
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#11 2007-04-11 9:52 pm
- Tallgeese
- Sternly Advising
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Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
For the most part, the Church has rejected Darwinism as an atheist philosophy, not as scientific theory.
I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.
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#12 2007-04-11 10:34 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
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Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
robco wrote:
I'm just glad that his papacy will (hopefully) be short-lived.
You have inside information on that?
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#13 2007-04-11 11:26 pm
Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
Well, he's not exactly a spring chicken is he...
It is an odd thing, but every one who disappears is said to be seen at San Francisco. It must be a delightful city, and possess all the attractions of the next world.
- Oscar Wilde
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#14 2007-04-11 11:39 pm
- Hank Rearden
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Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
Not having read the entire thing, it's hard to tell if he's an ID-ist with an "science" agenda, or just someone who (like many others) believes that there is an intelligence behind things but that evolutionary theory is the best naturalistic explaination that we have of what's going on.
That is, that evolutionary theory explains things in a robust way that implies that it very closely approximates natural law, but that there is a Creator who sets him/herself beyond the limits of the natural realm in which science operates.
The gross heathenism of civilization has generally destroyed nature, and poetry, and all that is spiritual. -John Muir-
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#15 2007-04-12 12:03 am
Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
Tallgeese wrote:
For the most part, the Church has rejected Darwinism as an atheist philosophy, not as scientific theory.
Just as well, I don't know any atheists who accept it as an atheist philosophy either. Most consider a branch of biology.
Ho Eyo He Hum
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#16 2007-04-12 12:41 am
Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
robco wrote:
I'm just glad that his papacy will (hopefully) be short-lived.
??
Are you saying you are glad that he will die soon?
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#17 2007-04-12 12:49 am
Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
I'm saying that he's not a young man and that it is quite likely that his time on this earth is limited and that will end his papacy. If he would rather abdicate (or resign), that would be fine too.
It is an odd thing, but every one who disappears is said to be seen at San Francisco. It must be a delightful city, and possess all the attractions of the next world.
- Oscar Wilde
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#18 2007-04-12 7:51 am
Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
Metacell wrote:
Tallgeese wrote:
For the most part, the Church has rejected Darwinism as an atheist philosophy, not as scientific theory.
Just as well, I don't know any atheists who accept it as an atheist philosophy either. Most consider a branch of biology.
Except Dawkins and religious creationists.
Last edited by StaticAge (2007-04-12 7:52 am)
"Live with your head in the lion's mouth. I want you to overcome 'em with yeses, undermine 'em with grins, agree 'em to death and destruction, let 'em swoller you till they vomit or bust wide open." -Ralph Ellison
"Overpower, overcome" -Cro-Mags
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#19 2007-04-12 8:45 am
- user
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Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
No, Dawkins considers it to be a branch of biology, also.
I'll grant you the creationists. They're quite eager to claim the TOE as the atheist religion.
Aw, he's no fun, he fell right over.
Unless you become as little children, there's no way you will believe this crap.
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#20 2007-04-12 11:06 am
- NAG
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Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
Someone who believes in Darwin's words and nothing else is a nut job. Thankfully there aren't really people who believe that. We have biologists who work with the theory of evolution instead. Just like how physicists work with the theory of relativity and are not Einsteinists.
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#21 2007-04-12 11:56 am
- bedstuy
- Archimandrite, Eastern Elite
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Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
I enjoy how he rails against materialism while having a Prada shoe fetish.
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#22 2007-04-12 11:59 am
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
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Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
He does not. Does he?
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#23 2007-04-12 12:03 pm
Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
But who makes the big hats?
It is an odd thing, but every one who disappears is said to be seen at San Francisco. It must be a delightful city, and possess all the attractions of the next world.
- Oscar Wilde
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#24 2007-04-12 12:13 pm
- sturner
- Royal High Poobah
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Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
His hatter.
The pope gets really good quality threads.
I'm not dead yet.
There are 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
"There are few things graven in stone, excepting your date of death."
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#25 2007-04-12 12:14 pm
Re: Pope Benedict sets himself apart from his predecessor
They could always get D&G or Dior to come up with some hip new vestments to connect with today's youngsters.
It is an odd thing, but every one who disappears is said to be seen at San Francisco. It must be a delightful city, and possess all the attractions of the next world.
- Oscar Wilde
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