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The house and its value is kind of like Hitchcock's McGuffin; events seem to hinge on it, but by itself it's of minor importance in the big picture.

bedstuy wrote:

ShnickyShnack wrote:

Maybe if you're okay with paying the bills for other people's gambling, you should consider being okay with paying for their health care.

Nonsense dear... much too logical

:: hangs head in shame ::

mackerm wrote:

JakeTheTall wrote:

It'll be bad for some homeowners (who should have known better).

How much do you think home buyers who got ARM mortgages/ balloon payment mortgages are to blame for their own predicament, and how much do you think they are victims of crooked mortgage salesmen?

Well, if the home buyers lied about their assets or income, its their fault. 

If they bought a home when they couldn't afford to, its their fault.

If they didn't understand the details of their mortgage, its their fault.

Caveat emptor.

JakeTheTall wrote:

mackerm wrote:

JakeTheTall wrote:

It'll be bad for some homeowners (who should have known better).

How much do you think home buyers who got ARM mortgages/ balloon payment mortgages are to blame for their own predicament, and how much do you think they are victims of crooked mortgage salesmen?

Well, if the home buyers lied about their assets or income, its their fault. 

If they bought a home when they couldn't afford to, its their fault.

If they didn't understand the details of their mortgage, its their fault.

Caveat emptor.

The problem with ignorance is that it doesn't easily reveal itself. Combine high-pressure tactics with major gaps in knowledge and the result will probably be disaster.

It's simply not reasonable to expect every citizen to have full knowledge on all subjects. That's why there are food safety (and labeling) laws, plus traffic safety laws, and financial disclosure laws. These damn mortgages should never have been legal.

Stop harping, damn you!

ShnickyShnack wrote:

The problem with ignorance is that it doesn't easily reveal itself. Combine high-pressure tactics with major gaps in knowledge and the result will probably be disaster.

It's simply not reasonable to expect every citizen to have full knowledge on all subjects. That's why there are food safety (and labeling) laws, plus traffic safety laws, and financial disclosure laws. These damn mortgages should never have been legal.

Food safety isn't an issue of understanding the product you're purchasing, its documenting the food is safe.  Traffic safety laws are there to protect everyone, not just the driver.

Some of the mortgages were very dodgy, but some weren't.  ARMs have their place.

If you don't have full knowledge on a transaction for $200,000 to $400,000 , including the cost to you, that's the buyer's fault.  How many papers does one sign ?  How many meetings are required ?  What kind of massive failure of common sense must one have ?

JakeTheTall wrote:

Banks CAN get every scrap, but they weren't.  They were loaning money to people based on what the PEOPLE said were their earnings and assets.

If the bank wasn't getting proper documentation, that is their own fault.  The marketing for these loans was intense, not to mention high-pressure sales tactics.  There were ads for interest-only loans all over the place.  Consumers bear part of the blame, but so do the lenders.

Again, it all comes back to poverty and income inequality.  Things have become so expensive, that ordinary people have to go to extraordinary lengths to attain the "American Dream".  Housing prices are soaring.  Many cars are now leased, or instead of 4 and 5 year loans, they're offering 6 and 7 year loans.  People who have healthcare coverage are starting to feel the squeeze as their co-insurance and deductibles rise dramatically every year but wages don't.  Our current economic situation is not sustainable and that reality is starting to rear its ugly head.

This is just the beginning.

Never put myself on the do-not-call list, so...

This joker calls and notes that he notices MY mortgage was due for a ReFi. Wonder why he didn't know that I've never held or co-held any kind of paper wrt land/house. Nor have I ever even applied for same.

If that call came to someone a wee bit desperate about making their payments...

ShnickyShnack wrote:

JakeTheTall wrote:

ShnickyShnack wrote:

The problem with ignorance is that it doesn't easily reveal itself. Combine high-pressure tactics with major gaps in knowledge and the result will probably be disaster.

It's simply not reasonable to expect every citizen to have full knowledge on all subjects. That's why there are food safety (and labeling) laws, plus traffic safety laws, and financial disclosure laws. These damn mortgages should never have been legal.

Food safety isn't an issue of understanding the product you're purchasing, its documenting the food is safe.  Traffic safety laws are there to protect everyone, not just the driver.

Some of the mortgages were very dodgy, but some weren't.  ARMs have their place.

If you don't have full knowledge on a transaction for $200,000 to $400,000 , including the cost to you, that's the buyer's fault.  How many papers does one sign ?  How many meetings are required ?  What kind of massive failure of common sense must one have ?

Look, I just don't think it's outrageous to outlaw shady mortgages. I'm talking about the "teaser rate" mortgages here.

I mean maybe someone's a senior citizen ... why else do you think scammers target them? They're vulnerable. And the poor.

You haven't made any case for not banning shady mortgage practices. Caveat emptor only works as long as it isn't you.

Moving goalposts ?

And this is American, one doesn't have to make a case to make something legal, the case should be made to make something illegal.

Which other actions would you say that people aren't trusted to make, besides buying a home ?

JakeTheTall wrote:

ShnickyShnack wrote:

JakeTheTall wrote:

Food safety isn't an issue of understanding the product you're purchasing, its documenting the food is safe.  Traffic safety laws are there to protect everyone, not just the driver.

Some of the mortgages were very dodgy, but some weren't.  ARMs have their place.

If you don't have full knowledge on a transaction for $200,000 to $400,000 , including the cost to you, that's the buyer's fault.  How many papers does one sign ?  How many meetings are required ?  What kind of massive failure of common sense must one have ?

Look, I just don't think it's outrageous to outlaw shady mortgages. I'm talking about the "teaser rate" mortgages here.

I mean maybe someone's a senior citizen ... why else do you think scammers target them? They're vulnerable. And the poor.

You haven't made any case for not banning shady mortgage practices. Caveat emptor only works as long as it isn't you.

Moving goalposts ?

And this is American, one doesn't have to make a case to make something legal, the case should be made to make something illegal.

Which other actions would you say that people aren't trusted to make, besides buying a home ?

Or for God's sake. That's such an idiotic approach to things.

ShnickyShnack wrote:

JakeTheTall wrote:

ShnickyShnack wrote:

Look, I just don't think it's outrageous to outlaw shady mortgages. I'm talking about the "teaser rate" mortgages here.

I mean maybe someone's a senior citizen ... why else do you think scammers target them? They're vulnerable. And the poor.

You haven't made any case for not banning shady mortgage practices. Caveat emptor only works as long as it isn't you.

Moving goalposts ?

And this is American, one doesn't have to make a case to make something legal, the case should be made to make something illegal.

Which other actions would you say that people aren't trusted to make, besides buying a home ?

Or for God's sake. That's such an idiotic approach to things.

Commie.

ShnickyShnack wrote:

Jim Cramer has an on-air meltdown

Wow. Even the cable economics programs are "edgy and confrontational."

Televised news is really a total pit.

Beagle/Bro. wrote:

Never put myself on the do-not-call list, so...

Initially I didn't because telemarketers need jobs.
But as a result of my NOT being on it I was suddenly getting 4 or 5 calls a week - same companies calling 2 or 3 times a month - so I had no choice.

Before there was a list I got maybe 3 calls a month.

The existance of a list made it far worse for me.

I suspect the existance of the list has resulted in increased junkmail in my mailbox (snail spam) but I didn't count before so ...