Forums | MacLife

Gatchaman wrote:

LukeLucas wrote:

WOW!

when you create an iPhoto gallery, the online photos can be flipped over to reveal information about the photo itself! really really cool!

FWIW, here's my gallery in progress!

Looks great!

Put some video up if you have any, please.  I'm curious to see what some non-Apple web gallery video looks like.

there should be some in the Boston Day 2 album, and also the one with the fireworks.

I'm not sure if you know this, but you can adjust the amount of your .Mac space allocated to the iDisk versus the amount allocated to your email storage.  Right now it looks like you're using the default setting of splitting it down the middle for each, which I think is silly.  I pushed my email storage down to the bare minimum, which gave me a lot more room on my iDisk.

I really don't understand this trend towards monstrously oversized email boxes these days.  I can keep all my email in 20MB of space

Really? That's great! I'll go figure out how to do that now.

Thank you.

wellfleation, I think this article was written for you: http://www.macuser.com/software/grab_im … free_1.php

Make sure you take note of the link at the end.

Frank

Looks like Apple has realized that many users are unhappy with iMovie '08 because they are allowing you to download the '06 iMovie HD version for free.

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/imovieHD6.html

Sounds like someone is admitting they are shipping some garbage.

frankly wrote:

Random User wrote:

Looks like Apple has realized that many users are unhappy with iMovie '08 because they are allowing you to download the '06 iMovie HD version for free.

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/imovieHD6.html

Sounds like someone is admitting they are shipping some garbage.

That is rude. I think perhaps it is more that they are admitting there are two different types of people that want to use the app. I understand that wellfleation hates the app but perhaps we should take into consideration that he really likes Final Cut Express. That is a more advanced method of editing movies. Perhaps the new iMovie is targeted towards the more casual movie editor. I for one am looking forward to trying it out. Of course, I've never gotten deep into iMovie and have never used Final Cut.

I think that iMovie was a little out of place since the introduction of Final Cut Express. What were they going to do for the next version if they stayed on the same path? It seems that they would have had to simply make decisions as to which features to cut so that it wouldn't encroach on the FCE market share. Perhaps the completely new app was the right direction. Only time will tell. and since you haven't tried the app yet you might want to refrain from calling it garbage.

Frank

Frank

In this vein, it's interesting how Apple seems to be going away from Final Cut with iMovie, but closer and closer to Aperture with each new feature iPhoto gets.

Random User wrote:

Looks like Apple has realized that many users are unhappy with iMovie '08 because they are allowing you to download the '06 iMovie HD version for free.

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/imovieHD6.html

Sounds like someone is admitting they are shipping some garbage.

No, they're underestimating their user base.

Czachorski wrote:

wellfleation wrote:

Czachorski wrote:

I want to know more about this.  Is there a timeline like in '06, or isn't there?  What control, exactly, is lost?  I'm baffled why Apple would take the software so far backwards.

Look back at my posts. iMovie 08 is much less intuitive and there is much less control. Stick w/06 iMovie and upgrade to iDVD and iPhoto 08 if you can.

AGAIN, iMovie 08 is a horror show. In fact, I will go on to say its the worst upgrade that I can remember from Apple. Its that BAD!

"Where's my timeline?  - Okay, I got that figured out"

I'm reading it again and again, and I still don't know if there is a timeline. 

Was there another post I missed?

Sorry, to clarify, there is something that resembles the timeline (it's set-up much differently) without out the robust editing features and control you have with 06.

wellfleation wrote:

Czachorski wrote:

wellfleation wrote:

Look back at my posts. iMovie 08 is much less intuitive and there is much less control. Stick w/06 iMovie and upgrade to iDVD and iPhoto 08 if you can.

AGAIN, iMovie 08 is a horror show. In fact, I will go on to say its the worst upgrade that I can remember from Apple. Its that BAD!

"Where's my timeline?  - Okay, I got that figured out"

I'm reading it again and again, and I still don't know if there is a timeline. 

Was there another post I missed?

Sorry, to clarify, there is something that resembles the timeline (it's set-up much differently) without out the robust editing features and control you have with 06.

Wow - so that square area they are dragging clips to in the demo is it?  ! ?

I was hoping that when you said "you figured it out" that you meant that you found a toggle button that would bring up the traditional time line, much like in '06 how the toggle button is there for clip view timeline versis time-based timeline.  But no such luck, huh.

I guess I will be adding FCE to my next iMac and using iMovie 08 for the simple, quick stuff and FCE for the real projects.

Okay, hearing all these concerns about iMovie, I had to go up to the Apple store and see for myself.  I think we should be a little tempered in criticizing it so harshly.  It is very different, and I can see why that would be frustrating to many.  But the differences are an entirely new work flow that works very well, making it faster to do many things, automating many of the most common functions, while still preserving the detailed controls under the hood (although in a different way).

The biggest shocker is what wellf has been saying - no timeline that stacks the video clips with the audio clips.  This obviously eliminates the detailed editing, syncing and cutting in a timeline format.  However, the way that the new timeline is laid out actually offerred more solid, clean tools to do the types of edits that I want to do when I am in iMovie.  Like very quick assembly of clip-snippets from your footage, fast easy manipultion of clips lengths, start and end points, clip arrangements, etc.  No, you can not adjust a clip length and see visually in a timeline where it lines up with a marker in the audio.  But it provides amazing tools for doing what most iMovie users probably do most - manipulate clip lengths and layout to sync to the music that you are hearing while you are editing.

I also like the way transitions are implemented.  Rather than adjusting the transition length everytime you add a transition (and iMovie 6 always seemed to auto-select a slightly different length by :01), you set a default transition length for the whole project, and then you can adjust individual transition lengths after they are added.  This is exactly the work flow I want.  I almost always want a 1 second transitions, and then every once in a rare while would I take one to 2 sec or 0.5 sec for some fine tuning.  Makes total sense to me.

And one thing that I am surprised that no one is raging about - all the transitions and KB effects render in real-time.  No rendering in the timeline waiting around for for it to finish before you can see the edit and hear how it sync to your music.  And with the very well implemented clip editing, you can change a clip length, play it, change it, play it, all with a transition in place, without having to re-render the transition every time.  The same with KB effects.  I had a KB effect with cross dissolves on either side of it, and was changing the KB setting and seeing the changes immediately.

The KB editing tools are a huge improvements.  Gone is the old, clunky check-box, slider-box control.  Its replaced with a visual set of zoom boxes that go over the photo, and you set the start and end points by dragging the zoom box around or making it smaller or bigger.  There is an arrow that connects them to show you  how it will flow.  You set it in about 2 seconds and then add it - very smooth work flow.  You can then adjust the length from the timeline - it uses a default time length just like the transitions, and see the changes in real time.  It felt like a real fast workflow, where you can take a crack at the KB effect real fast just to get it in the timeline, and then go back and adjust the time and the zoom boxes to fine tune.  All in real time, all very snappy.

I actually could not find the adjust clip volume level stuff, but I searched in help and found a new auto-adjust setting that takes a clip level up while simultaneously lowering the volume of any other audio around the clips.  Again, less detailed control, but more consistent with the workflow that I typically use.

The iPhoto-like management of your video library is a nice touch, and long overdue.  It is nice to have quick access to all your video clips for editing, or just for viewing.

I would like to complete a few projects with iMovie '08 before making a final decision on iMovie '08 or buying FCE.  I have many questions yet:  is it possible to do detailed audo adjustment like 06?  What codec does it use?  Does it support HDV or transcode into AIC?  Are all of the detailed tools that I have used in 06 in there somewhere?  From what I saw tonight, I expect reasonable answers to all of these.

But after the 30 minute tinkering at the store, I am excited to get it on my desk.  I'll have to wait to October - I'm holding out to get it until Leopard is out.  I see this as being a seriously different and improved way to edit movies - not a huge step backwards.

I really don't like the idea of having to buy FCE just to do what iMovie HD '06 did in order to stay current on everything.  Oh well.

Czachorski wrote:

Okay, hearing all these concerns about iMovie, I had to go up to the Apple store and see for myself.  I think we should be a little tempered in criticizing it so harshly.  It is very different, and I can see why that would be frustrating to many.  But the differences are an entirely new work flow that works very well, making it faster to do many things, automating many of the most common functions, while still preserving the detailed controls under the hood (although in a different way).

The biggest shocker is what wellf has been saying - no timeline that stacks the video clips with the audio clips.  This obviously eliminates the detailed editing, syncing and cutting in a timeline format.  However, the way that the new timeline is laid out actually offerred more solid, clean tools to do the types of edits that I want to do when I am in iMovie.  Like very quick assembly of clip-snippets from your footage, fast easy manipultion of clips lengths, start and end points, clip arrangements, etc.

No, you can not adjust a clip length and see visually in a timeline where it lines up with a marker in the audio.

Czachorski wrote:

But it provides amazing tools for doing what most iMovie users probably do most - manipulate clip lengths and layout to sync to the music that you are hearing while you are editing.

I don't want the smash and grab, I want personal creative freedom. The main reason I went to Final Cut Express were the aggravating bugs in iMovie not the lack of control. However, once I learned what could be done in FCE and its solid and basically bug free running power, I was hooked. (LiveType, which is also included in FCE, is also incredible!) It always for full control of EVERYTHING. The reason I even care about iMovie is b/c I use it for simple things which are either not available or have been made much more complex in  i08.

Czachorski wrote:

I also like the way transitions are implemented.  Rather than adjusting the transition length everytime you add a transition (and iMovie 6 always seemed to auto-select a slightly different length by :01), you set a default transition length for the whole project, and then you can adjust individual transition lengths after they are added.  This is exactly the work flow I want.  I almost always want a 1 second transitions, and then every once in a rare while would I take one to 2 sec or 0.5 sec for some fine tuning.  Makes total sense to me.

I prefer to be a able to have a choice as to whether to shorten or lengthen a transition which is not available in 08; the same is true with audio fade inns and outs.

Czachorski wrote:

The one thing that I am surprised that no one is raging about - all the transitions and KB effects render in real-time.  No rendering in the timeline waiting around for for it to finish before you can see the edit and hear how it sync to your music.  And with the very well implemented clip editing, you can change a clip length, play it, change it, play it, all with a transition in place, without having to re-render the transition every time.  The same with KB effects.  I had a KB effect with cross dissolves on either side of it, and was changing the KB setting and seeing the changes immediately.

Not a big deal - the lack of control and the take back of features is what over-rides the minor things such as this

Czachorski wrote:

...is it possible to do detailed audo adjustment like 06?

No

Czachorski wrote:

What codec does it use?  Does it support HDV or transcode into AIC?

I think this is the biggest improvement

Czachorski wrote:

Are all of the detailed tools that I have used in 06 in there somewhere?

No, but you can still download 06. It seems like Apple expects users to toggle back and forth between 06 & 08 to get all of the features they are offering. How un-Apple like. They should have included the new features with the old in an all in one 08 package.

Czachorski wrote:

But after the 30 minute tinkering at the store, I am excited to get it on my desk.  I'll have to wait to October - I'm holding out to get it until Leopard is out.  I see this as being a seriously different and improved way to edit movies - not a huge step backwards.

You'll see!

kman - I think it is just 1 audio track.

Wellf - you can adjust each transition individually after adding it.  It just uses the default length for your project initially, but you can change it for each transition very easily (in the edit pull down, or cmd-R).  I just don't see the lack of control.  I see the same controls implemented in a more convenient work-flow manner.

I taught myself FCE after attempting to edit a multi-camera project in iMovie.  What a dissaster multi-camera editing in iMovie was.  FCE was a godsend.  Trully and amazing program.  Anything complex, multi-camera or total control over every aspect is going to necessitate FCE, same now as it was with iMovie '06.  The problem I have with FCE is that it turned editing into a workflow that felt more like work than fun.  That is great when editing a 3-camera wedding - it is work and a pro tool is needed.  But the making it feel like work resulted in me doing less and less editing - I just found less and less energy and time for it.  Because iMovie had added so many features that were buggy and crash-prone (all down hill since iMovie 2.0 IMHO), that killed my energy to edit too.  I have hardly done any editing in the last 2 years.  For my single camera footage from Disneyworld where I want to quickly overlay it to music (with easy clip manipulation to get the sync points to the music lined up) and mix in photos, iMovie is the way to go.  I see the same level of control of the features I most commonly use, but implemented in a better work flow for me in '08.  I see myself editing again with this.

Let me give you an example - gone is the detailed audio volume editing (apparently) - where you can add pick points and move them up and down on a frame by frame level.  But do you know how I frequently used that tool?  To turn down the audio in the song and turn up the audio in a single clip, so the people talking would get louder relative to the music.  Then after that single clip, I would return it to normal.  It would take about 5 minutes and 20 clicks (and re-clicks as the crumby interface got in the way) in '06 to do that for 1 clip (if iMovie did not crash or hang).  Now, there is a single click button that does it all automatically.  Yes, less detailed control.  But also - yes, a work flow that is more consistent and faster for the way I want to use iMovie.  That is the types of improvements I see.  What drive creativity?  For me, it's having simple, fun tools that take the energy I have available at 7:00 pm after an 11 hour day to operate.  For others, it may be total control of every single aspect.  That's fine.  Until now, because iMovie '06 sucked so bad, we had neither.

At the same time, what is an improvement for me is going to a downgrade for many.  That is where FCE has its place.  I'll probably get it and use for multiple camera edits and complex projects where that control is needed (my wife still does 2-3 weddings a year).  But I am very, very excited about iMovie '08, and I am glad to see that Apple did something drastic to improve the flaming heap pile that iMovie had become.

kman wrote:

Czachorski wrote:

Random User wrote:

Thanks for the info Czachorski.  It still sucks that they took away the detailed timeline if only for audio editing reasons.  I guess I will have to wait and see how it feels when I get my hands on it too.

With the 30 minutes I played with it, it appears that gone are the audio editing timeline functions and the ability to roll between A & B audio footage like in iMovie '06.  I was accustomed to using iMovie occasionally just as an audio editor.  While I think you still do some audio editing in '08, it is designed for a work flow of changing clip lengths to sync to specific points in one audio track (a song).

That really stinks - can you even have more than one audio track?  Audio has been a big part of pretty much every project I've done, and losing the ability to mix two tracks, do fades and copy/cut the audio would be a deal breaker for me.

It may be more fairly viewed as a different app, but the fact that the iLife suite has lost some key functionality is really a step back.

Wouldn't that functionality be in garage band?  I ask, because I am not sure - not a big GB user.