Forums | MacLife
You are not logged in.
- Index
- » Ministry of Free Thought
- » How to serve 10 years on drug charges, without actually having drugs
#76 2007-08-28 3:08 pm
- JakeTheTall
- Cargo Cultist
- From: In Permanent Opposition
- Registered: 2003-03-13
- Posts: 9615
Re: How to serve 10 years on drug charges, without actually having drugs
Ok. Seems clear in my mind, that making something legal simply because its difficult or problematic to make it illegal, is a flawed idea.
(Yes, I'm being difficult.)
Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim. Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet." They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.
Offline
#77 2007-08-28 3:24 pm
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: How to serve 10 years on drug charges, without actually having drugs
JakeTheTall wrote:
Ok. Seems clear in my mind, that making something legal simply because its difficult or problematic to make it illegal, is a flawed idea.
(Yes, I'm being difficult.)
Well that's a terribly simplistic analysis of the situation, don't you think? At a minimum, I would add that a failed approach must be revised where the current prohibition is actually harmful to society. That's not to mention the fact that drug use and possession can largely be viewed as a matter of personal liberty where the rights of others are not being violated as they are in the other situations you offered.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
Offline
#78 2007-08-28 4:15 pm
- JakeTheTall
- Cargo Cultist
- From: In Permanent Opposition
- Registered: 2003-03-13
- Posts: 9615
Re: How to serve 10 years on drug charges, without actually having drugs
bratboy wrote:
JakeTheTall wrote:
Ok. Seems clear in my mind, that making something legal simply because its difficult or problematic to make it illegal, is a flawed idea.
(Yes, I'm being difficult.)Well that's a terribly simplistic analysis of the situation, don't you think? At a minimum, I would add that a failed approach must be revised where the current prohibition is actually harmful to society. That's not to mention the fact that drug use and possession can largely be viewed as a matter of personal liberty where the rights of others are not being violated as they are in the other situations you offered.
Er, yeah, I guess I'm saying "of all the reasons why drugs should be legal, I think this supporting point is weak and shouldn't even be used, in light of the other, more substantial points."
But, yeah, I guess since the reality of the problems caused by the prohibition, that might be worth using in the argument.
Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim. Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet." They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.
Offline
#79 2007-08-29 3:47 am
Re: How to serve 10 years on drug charges, without actually having drugs
JakeTheTall wrote:
Yeah, my point is, talk about the difference, don't talk about "gee, we can't enforce this law, I guess we'll scrap it."
I want the pro-drug people to have strong arguments to make the case, is what I'm saying.
You're oversimplifying.
And you are confusing two separate discussions.
People aren't arguing drugs should be legal (just) because prohibition is difficult to enforce. Well, most aren't, anyway.
,xtG
.tsooJ
Offline
#80 2007-08-29 5:49 am
Re: How to serve 10 years on drug charges, without actually having drugs
I'm of the opinion that a society should be able to make activities the society does not want to tolerate illegal.
There are obvious exceptions - it should not be illegal to be Wiccan, Homosexualy, etc. - but recreational drugs that have serious negative benefits, society should be allowed to say they do not want to tolerate their use by passing laws against them.
Not all drugs that are illegal should be. And there may be some legal drugs that maybe shouldn't be (though I can't think of any).
From my perspective - the only way drugs like cocaine could be legal is if they were only legal to use in specific designated places - like prostitution in Nevada. It isn't legal outside the brothels.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
Offline
#81 2007-08-29 7:12 am
- Zetetic Apparatchik
- Member
- Registered: 2001-01-07
- Posts: 8250
Re: How to serve 10 years on drug charges, without actually having drugs
resedit wrote:
There are obvious exceptions - it should not be illegal to be Wiccan, Homosexualy, etc. - but recreational drugs that have serious negative benefits, society should be allowed to say they do not want to tolerate their use by passing laws against them.
That doesn't make sense. Society is allowed to prohibit some actions that, if at all, only directly damage the self, but not others?
Why are homosexual relations particularly more inalienable than consumption of whatever you feel like?
I also wonder what criteria you use to judge if a drug is acceptable or not. (And wonder what you think of this for a reference point.)
Last edited by Zetetic Apparatchik (2007-08-29 7:14 am)
Join the MAF AudioScrobbler group.
Protest ist, wenn ich sage, das und das paßt mir nicht. Widerstand ist, wenn ich dafür sorge, daß das, was mir nicht paßt, nicht länger geschieht.
Offline
#82 2007-08-29 9:35 am
- radarman
- Member
- Registered: 2005-02-28
- Posts: 3626
Re: How to serve 10 years on drug charges, without actually having drugs
resedit wrote:
I'm of the opinion that a society should be able to make activities the society does not want to tolerate illegal.
There are obvious exceptions - it should not be illegal to be Wiccan, Homosexualy, etc. - but recreational drugs that have serious negative benefits, society should be allowed to say they do not want to tolerate their use by passing laws against them.
Not all drugs that are illegal should be. And there may be some legal drugs that maybe shouldn't be (though I can't think of any).
From my perspective - the only way drugs like cocaine could be legal is if they were only legal to use in specific designated places - like prostitution in Nevada. It isn't legal outside the brothels.
Your own post suggests the problem with that mentality. A law comprised of exceptions is a poor law. A much better way to run things is to leave people the hell alone, unless they are harming someone else.
Ironically, even though I am not Wiccan, this pretty much sums up their "law"
Pretty simple really. The only things that are illegal are those that unfairly harm others.
Offline
#83 2007-08-29 9:46 am
Re: How to serve 10 years on drug charges, without actually having drugs
radarman wrote:
A law comprised of exceptions is a poor law.
...
Pretty simple really. The only things that are illegal are those that unfairly harm others.
And cocaine (and derivatives) leads to exactly that - as it is known to cause extreme paranoia which does result in violence. It should never be legal to use on the street for that reason.
If there were controlled areas where it was used, that would take care of that problem - just like the legal brothels in Nevada take care of many of the concerns with prostitution.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
Offline
#84 2007-08-29 9:57 am
- user
- Your plastic pal who's fun to be with
- From: I'm not getting you down, am I
- Registered: 2001-10-15
- Posts: 16035
Re: How to serve 10 years on drug charges, without actually having drugs
No, you punish the violence.
Aw, he's no fun, he fell right over.
Unless you become as little children, there's no way you will believe this crap.
Online
#85 2007-08-29 11:09 am
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: How to serve 10 years on drug charges, without actually having drugs
resedit wrote:
And cocaine (and derivatives) leads to exactly that - as it is known to cause extreme paranoia which does result in violence. It should never be legal to use on the street for that reason.
If there were controlled areas where it was used, that would take care of that problem - just like the legal brothels in Nevada take care of many of the concerns with prostitution.
...so derivative behavior that affects others should be punished, just as with alcohol use.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
Offline
#86 2007-08-29 12:16 pm
- user
- Your plastic pal who's fun to be with
- From: I'm not getting you down, am I
- Registered: 2001-10-15
- Posts: 16035
Re: How to serve 10 years on drug charges, without actually having drugs
Yeah, what he said.
Aw, he's no fun, he fell right over.
Unless you become as little children, there's no way you will believe this crap.
Online
- Index
- » Ministry of Free Thought
- » How to serve 10 years on drug charges, without actually having drugs
