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To entirely appreciate what an iMac is you have to keep in mind that it is a desktop computer made with almost entirely laptop parts. So if some of the first things you think of when considering a new computer is "Can I upgrade it"? and "How will it run games"? You best look very hard at what you are getting because in any practical sense you will be buying a laptop with all the attendant laptop limitations.
The mobile cpu and the mobile graphics subsystem is why there is concern about game performance. Performance in general for that matter.

Pariah wrote:

made with almost entirely laptop parts.

Except the hard drive.

Oh yeah, and except the screen.

Oh yeah, and except the graphics card.

Oh yeah, and except the keyboard and mouse.

Oh yeah, and except the RAM.

But yeah, other than that, almost entirely laptop parts.

Pariah wrote:

Better to set them straight from the get go than have someone dump two grand into a machine and latter discover how limited they are with it.
I just think that if the first question out of someones mouth is "how will it play games"?

Good point.  I believe that the first question asked was about photos and video editing.  And then it was asked how games would be.  I think this is the correct order to have your expectations with an iMac.

Pariah, you might not hate the iMac so much if you didn't place the iMac on your lap. Thing has got to be crushing something down there.

test wrote:

Can you imagine how bad it would be with a CRT iMac? Pretty much the only way to make a G3 iMac work as a laptop would be with the pointy end down. And not just crushing but irradiating as well.  

A computer is what it is made of. iMacs are made of laptop parts so....

Pariah wrote:

A computer is what it is made of. iMacs are made with one laptop part so....I am basically just a big whiner....

fixed that for you.....

Czachorski wrote:

Pariah wrote:

A computer is what it is made of. iMacs are made with one laptop part so....I am basically just a big whiner....

fixed that for you.....

Meh, I don't have any particular passion for this argument anymore. My previous willingness to argue was born out of hope. But I have given up on Apple as far as hardware goes.
My next computer will be a home built to my specs and I intend to take advantage of the OS choices I have available.

Mr. T wrote:

Czachorski wrote:

Pariah wrote:

A computer is what it is made of. iMacs are made with one laptop part so....I am basically just a big whiner....

fixed that for you.....

CPU, GPU, RAM, optical drive, keyboard, motherboard chipset, cooling devices, speakers. 

That's 8 laptop parts; not one.

Ahh - yes, I forgot about the optical drive.  I see 2 now.

Mr. T wrote:

And you're forgetting the other six. 

The GPU, btw, is an underclocked Mobility Radeon 2600 XT.  (Don't know why they call it a Pro)

Everything else can be verified through various iMac autopsies.

The last iMac I put RAM into was normal RAM - not that mini-laptop stuff.  Have they changed that?  And I woud hardly call the keyboard a laptop keyboard, since its not attached to the computer.  The cooling, speakers and counting the motherboard/CPU as 2, well just give me a break on that hair spltting.

Show me a desktop with "desktop grade" speakers. 


And tel me again why any of the matters for the question posed?  Why the hell deoes it make a rats ass difference in the optical drive a tray or slot (more elgant anyway IMO).

Last edited by Czachorski (2007-09-01 7:18 pm)

Pariah wrote:

Better to set them straight from the get go than have someone dump two grand into a machine and latter discover how limited they are with it.

I "dumped" almost two grand into my MacBook Pro, upgraded the ram to two gigs and feel anything but "limited". I have a kick-ass powerhouse as would a person with a new iMac.

wellfleation wrote:

Pariah wrote:

Better to set them straight from the get go than have someone dump two grand into a machine and latter discover how limited they are with it.

I "dumped" almost two grand into my MacBook Pro, upgraded the ram to two gigs and feel anything but "limited". I have a kick-ass powerhouse as would a person with a new iMac.

I'm not dissing laptops, I'm talking about laptop parts in desktop computers.
Laptops have the extra energy saving things and down clocked parts for the very valid reason of greater battery life and the constraints of a necessarily tight case.

Last edited by Pariah (2007-09-01 9:19 pm)

Mr. T wrote:

(addressing pts not already adressed by others)

Czachorski wrote:

counting the motherboard/CPU as 2, well just give me a break on that hair spltting.

In the PC world, the motherboard and CPU are separate and unique components.  Sometimes it's even worthwhile to upgrade the CPU without replacing the motherboard (though more often not).  The fact that you can only use a laptop CPU with a laptop motherboard does not pardon the shortcomings of the laptop motherboard.

Show me a desktop with "desktop grade" speakers. 

You can order any Dell/Gateway/Compaq/etc with pretty much any speaker setup you want.  And the bottom-tier speakers are not actually that bad.  IIRC, the Cube came with some decent speakers standard, and Apple briefly offered a three-piece Harmon Kardon set on its entire desktop line.

And tell me again why any of the matters for the question posed?

As mmaverick said, laptop parts are slower and more expensive.  They're usually harder to replace (if at all possible) and in the case of optical drives, less reliable.  Also, it's sometimes impossible to find certain parts in laptop form.  For instance, you're not going to find any slot-loading BD burners.  I don't think anybody even makes external BD burning solutions, but even if they did, those would cost more, and run over the slower FireWire or USB bus (more of an issue for Hard Drives), as well as add an ugly tumor to the beautiful iMac case.

Well, clearly I was only thinking of the processor.  Which is a bit misleading, because they are marketed confusingly due to their names.  Apple/intel calls them Core 2 Duo, but there are different versions - a mobile and a desktop.  This is potentially misleading, and I have seen it explained here before and clearly understand that one.  Lump the motherboard in to that one, or call it 2.  To me, it is a continued ramification and potentially confusing/misleading of the mobile chip.

Beyond that, I forgot about the slot loading drive.  That makes very little difference to me in how the machine performs.  I could really care less if it is a slot that is a little slower.  Its not like I burn a chain of 100 discs in a row or something.  Usually just one or even 4-5, just let them burn while I am doing something else anyways - same as if the burner was faster.

I do not see any point couting the cooling system, keyboard, speakers, these are inconsequential to the computer performance.  These are tangential to the conversation and only added to make the list longer.

But the GPU & RAM are surprises to me.  I swear I remember adding RAM to a G5 iMac that uses regular RAM.  That was a G5, though - things may have changed with the intel (might that be what I was thinking of before with the CPU, motherboard and GPU, too?).  It would make sense, though, since it is the mobile chip-set, to use the mobile RAM too.  I had always thought that GPU was the same as any other desktop GPU, just not user replaceable.  No one has ever really discussed much here about the difference between mobile and desktop GPUs.  But if you say its a mobile and not a desktop, ok.

The CPU, GPU, Motherboard and RAM are pretty significant pieces of the machine, and I see Pariah's point better now.  It is beginning to feel to me more like a MacBook Pro with a fixed non-mobile design and a larger screen (would that be the right analogy, or is the MacBook better?)

ScifiterX wrote:

I should point out the last C2D iMac had full sized PC5300 DIMMs, the current has smaller PC5300 SODIMMs which are the same speed and the new iMacs even support newer PC6400 SODIMMs (though at PC5300 speeds). I should also point out PC5300 chips are still pretty ubiquitous so the laptop RAM argument isn't quite as valid in some are making it seem.

The ram isnt so much the issue as much as the almost 400mhz down clock on the FSB is on the laptop chipset.