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user wrote:

Having fantasies is completely normal.

I suppose the OP is speaking about Richard Dawkin's use of delusion to describe religious thought:

Richard Dawkins wrote:

The word 'delusion' in my title has disquieted some psychiatrists
who regard it as a technical term, not to be bandied about. Three
of them wrote to me to propose a special technical term for
religious delusion: 'relusion'. Maybe it'll catch on.

...The Penguin English Dictionary defines a delusion as 'a false belief
or impression'....The dictionary supplied with Microsoft Word defines a
delusion as 'a persistent false belief held in the face of strong
contradictory evidence, especially as a symptom of psychiatric disorder'.
The first part captures religious faith perfectly. As to
whether it is a symptom of a psychiatric disorder, I am inclined to
follow Robert M. Pirsig, author of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle
Maintenance, when he said, 'When one person suffers from a
delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from
a delusion it is called Religion.'

Ah! Then since I believe atheism to be a false belief, athiests are both a religion AND mentally ill.

Steyr AUG wrote:

mudogramx wrote:

I know many of you on the board are religious.  This is not intended as an insult to anyone who is, although it could easily be interpreted that way.  If so, thats not my intention.  This is a serious question.  Could religion be classified as a mental illness?  By mental illness I mean the literal interpretation of what a mental illness is defined to be.  Not mental illness in like zomg im crazy and I'm going to kill some people mental illness.  I'm looking at it from a cultural standpoint, in the sense of how we define mental illness.  Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way.  Discuss!

If you flip through a copy of the DSM-IV you will note many disorders/illness require the person to suffer a significant negative impact on their life in order to be classified as such. So unless its harming the person in their day to day life, no.

Beat me to it. Whatever the "cultural" definition of mental illness is is rather irrelevant. This is the actual definition, and religion will usually not fall into that category.

StaticAge wrote:

user wrote:

"...held in the face of strong contradictory evidence..." is the operative part of that definition. The evidence supports atheism.

What evidence? Seriously, I get it when Russell says that if he met God in heaven when he dies he'd march over and say "you didnt provide enough evidence" but I dont see how lack of evidence of one thing proves another unfounded assertion. If thats acceptable then why balk at creationists who point out some evolutionary gap or failing and say "aha! ergo creation is fact!"

That evidence doesnt contradict your view is one claim, to say that it is supporting it is another.

I didn't say anything about "proves". I said "supports".

For example, evolution supports atheism in that it demonstrates that a guiding intelligence is unnecessary for the development of life.

dreamkast0r wrote:

When does delusion hurt people, and who gets to decide something so subjective?

When they pick up a gun a kill for it..........

StaticAge wrote:

KrowMagnum wrote:

dreamkast0r wrote:

When does delusion hurt people, and who gets to decide something so subjective?

When they pick up a gun a kill for it..........

http://www.maclife.com/forums/topic/99697

Exactly what does that have to do with it ?

There's nothing delusional about depression. Get your mental Illnesses right !

Maybe the ones that can't see the fingerprints of God all over the place are the ones that are mentally ill. Or perhaps deliberately evil.

See, I can play that game, too.

This is delicious trollbait. You must eat it.

What is and isn't defined as mental illness is a good question. Seems a lot of things are being defined that way. Hell, look at how many kids are medicated these days. We seem to want pills for everything.

I don't think religion in and of itself is a mental illness, but that depends upon one's perspective. I'm not convinced that everyone who gets depressed now and then is mentally ill and needs meds (yes, I am aware that depression can be more severe and people suffering from more severe cases of depression do need treatment). I'm not even sure that any one of us wouldn't be diagnosed with some form of disorder/syndrome/condition by a mental health professional.

Any belief or dogma can be taken to an absurd extreme and cause someone to lose touch with reality. This isn't exclusive to religion.

robco wrote:

I'm not convinced that everyone who gets depressed now and then is mentally ill and needs meds (yes, I am aware that depression can be more severe and people suffering from more severe cases of depression do need treatment). I'm not even sure that any one of us wouldn't be diagnosed with some form of disorder/syndrome/condition by a mental health professional

Everyone gets depressed at one time or another. That is not the same as Clinical Depression and a competent professional would never diagnose it that way. The choice of the profession to use the term depression was a bad decision because it confuses it with being depressed and everybody goes through that in their life. Life can be depressing but it won't cause you to take your life. That goes far beyond what happens around us.

If everyone who got depressed suffered from the metal illness of depression there would be a smurfload more suicides everyday. It's really hard to see the difference from the outside looking in because it doesn't make sense. It's all about the lack of certain brain chemicals to deal with emotions, not the emotions.

The difference is that for people who feel depressed there is a root cause event that starts it. That is not depression, that is normal human emotions. Clinical Depression works as well on having a bad day as with loosing a loved one. The effect on the person can be just as devastating for either situation.

KrowMagnum wrote:

I do not have faith that there is a god because there is absolutely no evidence to suggest to me there is.

You're delusional. You have faith that there is not a god. Do try to keep up.

And a lot of evidence that suggests otherwise, especially from the so-called faithful and their actions.

Basing your beliefs on something on someone else? Weak tea.

Last edited by Phydeaux (2007-09-06 1:34 pm)

mo' ron wrote:

Phydeaux wrote:

KrowMagnum wrote:

I do not have faith that there is a god because there is absolutely no evidence to suggest to me there is.

You're delusional. You have faith that there is not a god. Do try to keep up. http://gtfoutsider.com/forums/Smileys/d … argh10.gif

You're implying that there somehow IS evidence of God. Where is it, and why is it evidence?

IT'S A TRAP.

Nonsense, he's switching gears and saying that he does not have faith in a god. That's wrong, but biases the position of his argument. Staying consistent, and thus supporting my stance, is saying that he does have faith in there not being a god. There's a difference in how he's going for the "you have a mental illness" attack.

Phydeaux wrote:

KrowMagnum wrote:

I do not have faith that there is a god because there is absolutely no evidence to suggest to me there is.

You're delusional. You have faith that there is not a god. Do try to keep up. http://gtfoutsider.com/forums/Smileys/d … argh10.gif

And a lot of evidence that suggests otherwise, especially from the so-called faithful and their actions.

Basing your beliefs on something on someone else? Weak tea.

Not believing in something that is non-existent is hardly faith. It's called R E A L I T Y

Phydeaux wrote:

mo' ron wrote:

Phydeaux wrote:

You're delusional. You have faith that there is not a god. Do try to keep up. http://gtfoutsider.com/forums/Smileys/d … argh10.gif

You're implying that there somehow IS evidence of God. Where is it, and why is it evidence?

IT'S A TRAP.

Nonsense, he's switching gears and saying that he does not have faith in a god. That's wrong, but biases the position of his argument. Staying consistent, and thus supporting my stance, is saying that he does have faith in there not being a god. There's a difference in how he's going for the "you have a mental illness" attack.

You should also ask him to clarify what types of faith are okay to have, and how to determine what kind of faith a faith is.

Phydeaux wrote:

Nonsense, he's switching gears and saying that he does not have faith in a god. That's wrong, but biases the position of his argument. Staying consistent, and thus supporting my stance, is saying that he does have faith in there not being a god. There's a difference in how he's going for the "you have a mental illness" attack.

Faith in not believing something exists ?

OK.....

That is a n opinion, not a faith.